Different fees for higher rated players?

As a Chess organizer, I try to think about things I could do differently to make my tournaments better.   This thread is looking for feedback on an idea I'm thinking about.

My tournaments, in the Detroit area, could be described as "low end" tournaments.  They feature one day events on  a Saturday, G/30 games, and no cash prizes.  The entry fee is low ($10).  That last part is key for me.  I also have, as part of the goal, charitable fundraising.  A small part of the entry fee is a contribution to a charity.  So far, I have supported the American Heart Association and the National MS Society.  It doesn't raise much money, but it does raise a small amount.

It is not uncommon in many tournament announcements to see a note that GMs play for free.  With G/30 games and no cash prizes, I don't think many GMs will come to play, even for free.  They might if they, like me, want to actively promote "beginner" tournaments, but for the most part, this is one they will pass on.

I'm thinking about "lowering the bar" for free or reduced cost admissions.  I'm thinking about letting high ranked players in for half price, with masters and GMs free.  I would use the USCF "category" titles to make the decision, with category I and above, or maybe even category II, getting in free, and masters, or possibly candidate masters, free.  (I find that a lot of people don't know what the "category" titles are.  They are only a couple of years old, and haven't received a great deal of fanfare, but I like them.  Basically, to earn a category II title, you have to play consistently above a 1600 rating, at least for a while.  Category I is at an 1800 rating.  Candidate master is 2000, plus a couple of other minor strings.  Once you earn the title, you have it for life.)

So, why do this?  Obviously, I'm hoping to attract higher ranked players.  I have had a couple of category I players, and a few more category II players, but so far none higher than those.  I would like more 1s and 2s, and maybe some above that. I doubt that the five dollar cost difference will be the deciding factor.  After all, by the time of my next tournament in the Fall, that will probably be a gallon of gas.  However, I think people might respond to getting some sort of "perk" or "attaboy" for accomplishments below the grandmaster level.  I'm pretty impressed by 1800 level players myself, and I want to give some sort of small recognition for such an accomplishment.  Meanwhile, people like to attend tournaments with superior players, so if it worked to attract a few extra high ranked players, it would also attract some extra low ranked players who wished to play against them.

Unfortunately, I can't offer free admission to very many people at all, but half priced admission is doable for a larger number. 

So, I'm running this idea out for comment.  There are two issues.  Would anyonerespond to such an offer, and are there people who would be put off by it?  If you were a 1400 ranked player, would you like the prospect of more higher rated opponents, or would you resent paying a higher cost than they do?  If you are a Category II ( roughly a 1600-1800 rating), would you be pleased at getting a discount, or would you see it as an ultra-hokey gimmick that was a turnoff?

Any feedback would be welcome.

This is not uncommon.  At our local club tourneys, titled players (starting from NM) play for free.

For big money tournaments however ... I'd charge a nominal amount compared to the rest of the field.

I have only run one tournament so far that I offered free entry to GMs or IMs and that was primarily because I had an IM that was interested in playing  (he was in the area) and that would seal the deal.

Generally speaking, I don't think you will pull in many really high rated players, with low/no prizes, even with free or reduced entry fees. Unless you area is just inundated with really strong players. I think you need larger prize funds and longer time controls (and number of rounds) to pull in many of those type of players.

We used to run $10 entry tourneys but free/cheap locations are very hard to come by. My last one, the one with the IM, actually lost money for me (partly due to weather) since we had to rent a conference room at a hotel and turnout was a lower than expected.

I don't think it is a bad idea and I will possibly include the free entries in future tourneys but it will completely depend on expected turnout and room cost. Of course, I don't think I'll be pulling in any NMs, let alone an IM or GM again.

On the list of variables influencing someone's decision to play in a tournament, a $10 entry fee is probably near the bottom of the list. Making time for it, finding it interesting or exciting, easily accessible, marketed well, clean and inviting, other friends going to play, and of course time controls and prizes: those are probably factors that rank higher than the $10 fee.

So, if entry fee is no barrier, how can you manipulate the other variables?  Any way to get group commitment (school chess club, community chess club, local Chess.com/ICC/Playchess players who might be interested in their first OTB tournament?)

On the charity side, I'd suggest trying to link your charitable contribution to a group you can rope into playing. Donate the cash to the school who sends the most students to play. Or the church who lets you use their community center. Or the school who lets you set up tables in the gym for free. Or to a local chess club.

On titled players: you can offer free admission, or they pay the admission but get their entry fee refunded if they play all their games. Someone else on another thread recommended the latter idea.

If you rope in school or church players, you may stand a better chance of getting a dad or a local business guy (think: insurance agent, real estate broker, a solo lawyer, a lawn company) to sponsor a $100 prize in exchange for a banner that says Sponsored By: so-and-so state farm agent or So-and-So ReMAX agent and they can put some of their business cards and flyers out at the tournament.  Maybe make a simple, clean professional website for your tournament and rotate your sponsors on there too.  Having a website for the tournament info that parents etc can go to would, I think, enhance its credibility.

Just some brainstorming. Good luck.

If there are any NM, GM,IM players in your general vicinity you might consider inviting them to play a simul, charge the regular tournament players to play against them and give the Master a cut of the simul take. In addition to increasing your revenue, you might attract players who would then participate in your regular tournaments. Good luck

For many people, cost isn't a problem.  If you talk to people who regularly participate in Chess tournaments, and all of the Chess tournaments in your area have fees of at least 25 dollars, then everyone you talk to will agree that 25 dollars is not too much to pay for a Chess tournament.  However, you won't talk to me at such a tournament, because I won't be there.  20 dollars is my threshold, and I'd rather see 5, 10, or 15.  My tournaments are pretty small, but we have some really large tournaments around here, usually scholastic and usually associated with a school club, that have some low fees.

Since I started holding tournaments with ten dollar entry fees, I have had a significant fraction of participants be first time players, who were happy to see a reasonably priced tournament.

Obviously, prizeless, cheap, fast tournaments aren't for everyone, but I'm trying to serve the niche who likes that sort.  (For example, me.  That's the sort of tournament I attend.)

However, even for a cheapskate like me, the difference between five dollars and ten dollars is not a significant difference.  If I'm willing to give up a Saturday afternoon and drive an hour to play Chess, a five dollar versus ten dollar fee won't be something that is a deciding factor.  What I'm thinking, though, is that normally price breaks on fees aren't given for anyone that doesn't have some sort of "master" in their title.  I'm talking about giving a price break to someone with a 1650 rating.  The real incentive here isn't the  five bucks, it's a tangible compliment to a person who is normally looking "up".  It's a way of saying, "1650, eh?  Not bad.  I sure wish a strong player like you would come to my tournament.  How about if I take five bucks off?"  Do you think people would respond?  I think a few would.

Meanwhile, for a player like me, with a 750 rating, everyone above 1500 may as well be a grandmaster, but I would like to take a shot at some of you 1200+ guys.  If I can attract a few more 1600s, then the 1200s might come to play them, and it would trickle down to me.

Well, that's what I'm thinking, anyway.

 There isn't a "problem" as such, but there's always room for improvement.

For this style of tournament, one thing about the advertsing is reaching out to players who also aren't USCF members, but this particular initiative doesn't do anything about that.

The appeal I'm making with this initiative is basically saying to the 1600 and 1800 set, "You're special.  At this tournament, we value you, not just the master level players."  However, that appeal might not work unless I give free admission.  For free admission, I'm confident it would work.  Half price admission, when it's only five bucks, might be kind of like giving out a free stick of gum.  Not worth the effort, and perhaps a little insulting.  Not sure how it would be perceived.

Run tournaments in Scotland - our best players will compete for a Happy Meal.  We are way cheaper than England where the prizes are impressive by comparison.

Stronger players are most interested in good prizes, good playing conditions and a reasonable entry fee...... 

 Yeah, it was something like that, and I think you are probably right.  I wasn't plannning the multiple step fee schedule you described, but I was contemplating a three step schedule with some players free, some half price, and most full price.   At this moment, based on the feedback so far, I wouldn't do it.  I wondered if it might be perceived as "charging extra" for the low rated players, and if two other people also had that thought, other people would as well.

If I do anything at all, it will involve free admission for titled players, but I might move the threshold title down a bit from the conventional master level. 

I said that my motivation was to attract stronger players, but in some sense I misspoke.  In some sense, that's more of a secondary effect.  What I really want is to say to players, "You don't have to make it all the way to master level to be 'special'"  I've had some experience in other organizations, and singling out and congratulating people for small accomplishments can be a genuine motivating factor.  As a side effect, almost, if my tournament is the place where a 1600 gets some sort of recognition, I think my tournament would attract 1600 level players.

What sort of spread of players do you get at the moment? If you are getting a mixture of 800s -1500s perhaps upsetting the balance with reducd prices for 1600s would ruin it for others, by making it impossible to win. This would mean you would get less weaker players and less money.

Furthermore if the tournament is only $10, it is probably insignificant to give reductions.

 I give no prizes unless you count the chintzy medals that cost two and a half bucks.  Nevertheless, I have gotten a few 1800+ players, and several more 1600+ players.

Interestingly, the strong players I've gotten have been of two sorts.  One sort is the "activist" player.  These are guys that are visible somehow in the Chess community.  They write blogs, are vocal on the message boards, or are major participants in the Michigan Chess Association.  Their motivation for attending my tournament is they want to support the community.  They feel that Chess is a worthwhile activity, and by attending a small tournament, they are contributing.

The other type is someone who has literally never  attended a tournament, or has not done so for many years.  Again, I've had a couple of those.  The 1800+ player that fit that bill best was actually an unrated player.  His 1892 rating was a provisional rating at the end of the tournament. (And he was obviously delighted with the chintzy medal.)

In viewing who attends events put on by an organization, you have to look at the culture that has grown up around that organization.  I see Chess tournaments and they are indeed dominated by a mindset that says high rated players compete for prizes.  This leads everyone to offer prizes.  It seems that everyone must want that, but there's a danger.  If the only tournaments that exist are big prize tournaments, then the only players who attend will be people who like those tournaments.  In reality, there's an underserved niche of people who are turned off by  the dominant culture.  I'm looking toward that underserved niche, and they'll have different motivations.

Still, I take to heart the feedback here.  "Five dollars off" probably won't be the right motivating factor.  It still has the "feel" of a money-oriented incentive, but it isn't sufficient to actually work.

For what it's worth, I did look for a great venue before I started holding the tournaments, and got lucky finding a pastor who loves Chess and has a nearly perfect basement for a tournament.  Good lighting, two large, but separate rooms so we can have a skittles room and a tournament room, and a sweetheart deal where he lets me pay per player instead of flat fee, so I can't lose money.  (Actually, I do tend to lose a little money due to some overhead costs, but it's about 20 bucks per tournament.  I can live with that.)

 That's my biggest problem.  The spread is too big.  We get 1800 down to 300, with not enough players (yet) to split sections.  The consequence is some games with a 1000 point rating spread.

Perhaps instead of a money off for strong players a good way of increasing entry would be to offer free entry next tournament  for the top player the top U1600 the top U 1100 and the top U600, and possibly also a loyalty discount.

 Good ideas.  I had already given free entry for top 3 overall, and if I had enough to split the section I would do it for top 3 in every section, but since I don't, that still leaves out all but the strongest players.  I can afford at least one more freebie for a U1100 even if I don't split the section.

Or, I always acknowledge a biggest upset, and that is almost impossible to be won by a high rated player.  Maybe I'll make it a free entry prize as well.

Why do organizers organize?  Sounds like a pain;  I'm still having trouble understanding why a person would put themselves in that without getting something in return besides recognition as an organizer of events.

Why organize? So that there will be events for people to play in local to the organizer. In many areas, someone organizes and runs tournaments or no rated tournaments get run near you.

For my area you have the choice of driving  100-150 miles for two of the closest cities that hold tournaments consistently or 240-290 for the other two places that hold tournaments a lot. We have one other town, a little closer, that runs tournaments occasionally. If someone didn't run something locally then players are left with either not playing rated tournament chess or travelling for all their games.

That is my return on my time investment. Driving interest in competitive chess. I don't get to run as many as I would like to have here but what I do run gives local players that may not get to go to those other places a chance to play rated chess. Occasionally, if I have an odd number of players in my event (or in a section) then I also may get to play.

My ultimate hope is that other people will step up and run events too, to share the load and hold more tournaments.

 Not to pick on you, but this question is more common than I wish it were.

In other clubs I have been a part of, holding local events was just part of what club members did.  To me, a Chess tournament is like a party.  Ok, it's a sedate party, but what I mean is that it's a social activity.  It's an opportunity to get together with people you like who are doing an activity that you like to do.  Why be the host of a party when you could just go to other people's parties?  There's no one, single, answer, but somewhere in the back of your mind there's a voice that tells you that if you don't host the party at least once in a while, there won't be any parties.

Somehow, in Chess culture, people don't view it as exactly like that.  Tournaments have more of a commercial "feel" to them, as if they are hosted by a business-like entity for a fee, and the attendants are more like consumers who expect to be treated like customers.

It's not "wrong" as such, but, but it's just a subtle difference in viewpoint that I would like to see changed, at least for some events.

Right, this is my point.  I look at what organizers put up with and I'm grateful to the organizers for creating a tournament to go play in but I don't understand why they put themselves through that.  Since not only do they have to deal with "throwing a party" but perhaps some of the guests can be a bit on the rude side as you've alluded to.  In my area there are even teenagers who have begun organizing tourneys to go to where there are no entry fees.  I'm baffled.

 Ahh, I understand.  It's simple enough, really.  We want to play Chess, so we create places to play Chess.  The guests are rarely rude, although it does happen.  I suspect that they are less rude at the "low end" tournaments like mine.  No cash is on the line.

I'm baffled about your bafflement, though, when it comes to no fee tournaments organized by teens.  It sounds like a fantastic idea, if I could get a site where it could happen.