Does the prize reduction for unrated really need to be so severe?

So I was looking into playing my first otb tournament and noticed how severe the prize cut was for an unrated player.

http://www.chesstour.com/cono12.htm

I get the premise, it keeps people who are good from going in and destroying lower rated tournaments. But is that really such a common thing that 70% or more of the prize has to be lopped off?

I'm not saying I'd win, or get second, or even place at all. I could easily lose the whole thing (I'd do the 1400 and under one I think). But it is almost a massive punishment for trying to get into competitive chess. If you get third second or first you get rewarded the exact same?

I could see the point more if it was the huge philly tournament with $10,000 and up prizes, but would ninja masters really waste the time going around the country playing in small tournaments to get the small prizes from 1400 and under tournies?

The extra ironic thing, if I'm reading it correctly, is that the prize goes to the next player in line. So if I won and a rated player came in second they would get $1900 but if they won and I came in second they would get $1500?

For one thing, it discourages people from refusing to take a rating, so that they can enter various tournaments as unrated players.

You can't refuse to take a rating, if you are unrated you have to join the uscf and will have a rating forever after that goes with you.

The only way around that would be to keep making new fake IDs and scamming the games. But that is my point, is that really so common in small tournaments that legitimate players have to be penalized so severely?

Refusing to take a rating?  The score sheets are collected after the game and sent in.  You can't refuse a rating unless you refuse the game took place all together.  (?)

It's a good question, I'm not sure.  Maybe it's to encourage established players to show up.  e.g. if I'm rated 1379 and believe I have a shot at 1st in the U1400 division, I woudln't want some 1700 strength but unrated 10 year old to take the prize every time.  So maybe it's security for the established guys.

Some places, like Texas, have a ton of strong kid players.  Some youth players play in tournaments outside of the USCF (scholastic events) where they gain experiance and strength.

Well clearly things work quite differently Stateside. I've played in a tournament where unrated players were put in the lower class, and offered a chance to join the ICU after or during the tournament, but neither a rating nor an affiliation were required to enter.

As for score sheets equalling a rating, that would imply that every tournament in the US is run and organised by the one federation, and that everyone playing must be affiliated with them, otherwise how would they know which John Smith is which, etc.?

Anyway, I still say the practice may have an element of scam evasion, though it could also help in attracting top players, which in turn gives the competition in question a better name.

Yes, nearly every tournament in the states is run under the USCF and you must be a member to enter the tournament.  Also, the tournament director must be recognized as a director by the USCF.  This guards against fradulent tournaments to boost your rating or diminish someone elses (or both!).

Of course there are small club tournies played for fun, or at schools.  But no one ever mentions their club rating outside of their club :p

I would start in lower prized tournaments (even if any at all), to establish a rating first, and then I would play in a higher prized tournament.

The main reason for this is to prevent foreign players without USCF ratings to start playing tournaments in the unrated section (even though they are really rated much higher, sometimes even above Master Level) and cleaning up with each tournament, completely taking advantage of the *real* unrated players...

It's that simple...

Danny

Ah, that makes sense. 

Thank you for weighing in on this. Couldn't they just check for an FIDE rating when a person applies to the USCF. It wouldn't catch everyone but it seems like it would catch the serious ones.

It seems like a lot for a person to go through with all the traveling and expenses to be able to do it once. And after that one time they'd have a rating and could clean up as they ranked up anyway.

It seems like a person could do something similar by playing at a club or tournament and intentionally losing to start with a low rating and then go win a bigger money tournament with no penalty.

I can see the reasons on why they put the penalty in, it just seems excessive and that it hurts as much as it helps.

There is a club not very far from me that does monthly rated tournaments. I might just have to go join there to play a couple of matches before the August tournament to get a rating, even though I don't have much interest in a club.

One other question. Is it for truly unrated only or does provisional rating count as unrated (does USCF do a provisional?)?

A player with a provisional rating is not considered to be unrated.  However, it takes the USCF about two months to publish a new or updated rating, so the player will play as unrated until the rating is published (I rejoined the USCF after a 30-year hiatus.  I was considered unrated until the USCF found my old records and published the rating two months later.  Even though I informed the TD of the situation, I still was allowed to win the unrated prize prior to the rating publication).

To be clear, I'm not trying to beat the system. I simply want a fair shot at the top two prizes. Since I've never played a rated game of any kind (and haven't even registered for the USCF yet) I don't currently have that shot.

So if I played two club ranked games in the following 2 weeks in July. The ratings lag would still have me unrated when the August tournament rolled around so there isn't even a point in playing those club games. Is that basically what I'm reading here?

You would be unrated in August.  I just looked up my USCF rating.  They have my current published rating and my published rating as of 8/1/12 listed.  So any future changes will be published 9/1/12 or later.

Thank you for that information, even if it is unfortunate.

Looking at the tournament flyer, it looks as if the TD has some discretion concerning unrateds.  I doubt that they would want to deal with the unhappy players if an officially unrated were awarded the full prize.

Ratings:  August official USCF rating list used. Unofficial uschess.org ratings usually used if otherwise unrated.

Otherwise, some people would train and train without playing in tournaments. Then, once they were good enough, they'd take their winnings.

Interesting point.  The strongest player in a club that I once belonged to never played a rated game.  However, he could beat everyone in town, including an International Master.

As Ace_chess metione,...This is a carry over from pre-internet days. now it would be hard for a player from another federation sneak in unless they gave a fake name. 

The problem was that back in the 70-90's players from europe on the east coast and mexico and phillipines would roll in and be clearly master strength and play events as unrated and scoop up prizes in lower sections. Granted they could only do it 1x but if the prize was a large sum it was worth it to them. rating floors are another way they deal with sand baggers as well.