Does winning involve any luck ?

I have had a discussion with my opponent during a relaxing 3 day game, where in the end phases we were down by 33/33 and I commented that winning, to some degree, also involves luck, as otherwise any game between equal players would be a draw. He denied this and claims that all wins are due to talent and strategy. Any comments from the peanut gallery ?

If you define luck as utilizing elements outside of your control, then every chess game is won by luck.  You can't cause your opponent to make mistakes, and one cannot win in chess without one's opponent making a prior mistake.

Also if you find a good move without knowing why fully or knowing all the opponent's threats.  If you don't notice a pawn hanging but it'd be bad for the opponent to capture then you're lucky.  If you do notice and make a conscientious decision to ignore it then it's skill, as that's information you took in and factored into your decision.

if it's on the internet they could lag out in real life they could trip and get a severe concusion so yes there can be luck

BRACE YOURSELVES

the people shouting out chess has nothing to do with luck are coming

So a 1500 player is unluckiest person in the world.

Because he can't beat 2500 player.

The point I am making is that sometimes you make a move because you have to, chess is about moving pieces around a square board. You don't know why you moved that particular piece, as several other options looked just as good. Your opponent makes a similar counter move, several other options to him also looked just as good. You are more or less equally matched by the computer, neither of you is Kasparov or Magnus and you can not see 100 moves ahead. That is when LUCK kicks in.

At my level, "luck" plays a major role in deciding games. Meaning, "luck" is when the possibility for overlooking the correct move manifests.

Of course luck does exists in chess !! Gary Kasparov once said that "the biggest mistake that a chess player can make is the lack of good luck" but he also said that " this good luck comes after one has played so well that the oponent makes a mistake" so I absolutely agree that luck is a good advantage in chess but our talent and strategy are the best resources we have to defeat our oponents and kick their ass !!!

It all boils down to "luck" being one of those things that is extremely subjective in its application to any given endeavor.  One person can say that luck has no application to chess whatsoever, given the "perfect information" nature of the game, and another person can say that every game is decided by luck, humans being creatures of inevitably imperfect logic by nature...and both can be absolutely correct.

It's kind of like determining whether or not chess is a sport.  The answer is yes.  Or no.  Depending on how you look at it.

i like to be lucky...

I start everyday by saying "Hopefully today is a lucky day for me". I have experience many unlucky days. And "YES", winning involves luck. In those unlucky days,  you can be beaten by rating 365.

withThe Free Dictionary: Next to; alongside of: stood with the rabbi; sat with the family. →

It would be your lucky day if the GM came to the board drunk.

You cannot ignore the lucky factor. Call me superstitious.

Can your talent and strategy beat a GM? Absolutely not. But on your lucky day, yes, you can beat a GM, but that could only happen once in your life. Maybe you cannot beat a GM in your life. That depends on your luck.

Out and out luck for the 1000 player. Playing drunk is not stategy.

The subconcious of the human mind is truly amazing. In fact, it is the reason Humans can even come close to matching Computers in the game of chess. We instinctively recognize positions and moves without even realizing we do so.

I would argue that the reason we pick a move out of several other equal looking moves has to do more with our subconcious instincts (I.E. some level of skill) than with any amount of "luck."

Chess is consists of many factors -

psychology(why didnt i see better move),

special preparation(openings, endgames, strategic principles),

original thought(if you play by the book, you always have same result, if opponent plays by the book too, if he doesnt, youre at disadvantage),

time(if i had month against Kasparovs 3 minutes and hes not thinking during my time, i think i would have chance to win him),

different circumstances(theres an open wind and maybe it bothers you, maybe guy next to you is tapping with his fingertips on the table and it bothers you, maybe you havent slept well)

Tiredness(if youre thinking for 40 minutes for 1 move and choosing a variation youre more likely to miscalculate something then if you just started thinking)

Pairings(get to play against GM or club player)

I think there are too many factors for human to be able to control all of them perfectly. Our organism knows how to make all organs work togther properly, but for us to make our "organism in our mind" and control it wery well is very difficult and thats why i think that in a chess game theres at least 20%-30% luck in each match, all we can do is do our best and let faith take care of the rest.

I have sometimes been totally out-classed.  My loss had little or nothing to do with luck.  Once or twice I've been on the other side of that.

Usually ... at least in the 1200 region where I'm playing ... a win involves some degree of luck where someone made a blunder he realized just a little too late.

this is a game i just watched live that ended about 30 seconds ago as i was (luckily enough) looking at the comments of this post :P

http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=556558686