Ethical question...

Let's say a team match was posted and you really wanted to play for your team but you were rated a bit too high to qualify. Would it be ethical to challenge higher rated players or people who've beaten you before to games. Thinking that even though you'll play your best, it's still likely that you'll be beaten and lose enough ratings points to enter the match.

BTW, not a question I'd encounter, personally, since my rating is not high enough to be excluded from matches!

I was wondering if you would ever know if you truly did your best considering the psychological component.

My ethics don't detach. They r a part of me. And no, they don't offer a surgical procedure for that, haha!

I wish I had the time (each day), energy, years left and motivation to take up that challenge. :P

Any artificial downward manipulation of rating is suspect in itself. What you suggest, assuming you do actually try your best, doesn't seem to break any rules. However it does create what can be fairly called "an appearance of impropriety." The only  difference between straight sandbagging and just giving yourself a chance to have your rating fall if you lose is your mental state. Your actions are the same either way.

So, if you are trying to be seen as ethically beyond reproach, this is a bad idea as there exists no objective evidence that your playing these games and losing isn't just sandbagging. It would look like sandbagging, and the only evidence otherwise is your claim that it isn't. If you want to avoid having your reputation questioned, avoiding circumstances where the difference between an act being unethical and it being ethical is solely your mental state is the best practice. Even if your reputation is such that your claim will likely be believed, you are spending credibility in that having to appeal to one's own credibility weakens the ability to appeal to credibility in the future. Basicially, someone who is constantly just saying "trust me" about these things is not likely to have it work for long no matter how honest the person is. 

If you are solely concerned with being ethical and not caring what others may think, then it really is a question of whether you can be certain you will try to win these extra games to the best of your ability. If no, then you are rationalizing sandbagging. 

 Actully winning isnt all that matters.  The nike mentality... no pain no gain, just win or go home, second place is first place loser...etc. 

Try thinking on your own, and quit listening to what the TV tells you.

If you can't detach your ethics then it really makes no difference what anybody else says here or not. If we said it was unethical and you didn't think it was, you would likely still do it, if we said it was fine and you didn't think it was, you would likely not do it. I suppose you could be manipulated/swayed by peer pressure but by the sounds of it your ethics will not be detached anyway. 

If you try to fail, and you succeed, which have you done?

So... how many points do you desire to lose?

I'll happily take them!

Just kidding...

@ elbow, thanks for the thoughtful response. :)

@ I am second, I agree, winning isn't everything not matter what TV, peers, etc. say.

@ wizard, It's just a thought I had and felt like discussing, not something I'm considering.

@ green castle- that's a good question

@ benzo, Who me? No, I need points! I find them hard to acquire & keep!

Okay, I'll happily give you points then!

I need to lose some points because I would like to participate in a lower rated tournament.

Oh, no!!! My ethics are being tested... It would be altruistic to help out another chess player... Just kidding, I guess I'll have to earn them like everyone else!

cyed -- I disagree with you about the IM or higher part. From everything I have read about Bobby Fisher he was highly ethical as far as chess is concerned. He may have been pick and sometimes rude -- but from everything I have read GM's and other commented on his ethical behavior more then once. As far as I am concerned --I would be satisfied with his success in chess. :)

thank you Elbow -- I liked your thoughtful response.

As far as games with friends are concerned I tend to play higher rated players-- I like the challenge. So, if I were in that situation I would probably sit out the team match. Not just because of my own ethics and repuation but because if people thought I was sandbagging even if not true it would reflect on the team. Furthermore, if my teammates thought I was sandbagging some of them might resign because of their ethics and I would have hurt my team. The cost would not be worth it -- even if I personally would not have a problem with it, which I do.

Thank you for weighing in, Renate. :) I like how you really thought about the question and gave your honest-& ethical ;) - opinion. I appreciate it!

:)

                 I don't mean any disrepect but,  Elbow Jabertski ??  God, you must of had a terrible school life.  I'm sure you had fine parents but, nameing a child ELBOW sounds un-ethical to me.

Hey, he seems to have turned out pretty good. He seems intelligent, thoughtful and respectful. Maybe, some people should change their name to Elbow. :D