it just delays the inevitable.
Fishcer - Weinstein, 1960, US Championship game
Here's some interesting info on Raymond Weinstein. I remember him as being a promising player who suddenly disappeared from chess, but we were never told what happened to him. It was only many years later that Sam Sloan uncovered the story. BTW Weinstein was a cousin to GM Arthur Bisguier and a former US Senior Master and US Champ. participant named Arthur Feuerstein.
http://www.anusha.com/weinste.htm
The queen will just take the bishop.
Yep..after Qg7 Bd7 its still mate soon
It is inevitable any way you look at it
The queen will just take the bishop.
Not true, for then a mate is avoided in the next few moves:
The queen will just take the bishop.
Yep..after Qg7 Bd7 its still mate soon
It is inevitable any way you look at it
Qd7 looks bad, black have Qe7 which is equal.
But it's not always about the mate. In many cases people resign after a clear advantage. In this case after Qxe6, white has a clear advantage and can start taking black's pawns, also having a better position. Black can only hope for a very stupid mistake from white, wich is not the case with very good players.
Really! Fischer was a GM and Weinstein an IM. Does anybody think Fischer was going to botch the win or that Weinstein wasn’t capable of realizing how bad his position was?! Do you understand how incredibly good GM’s (or even IM’s) are?
33.Qxh6 Rff8 34.Qxe6 Qa6 35.Qxd5 Rd8 36.Qxc4 Qc8 37.Bg2 Qd7 38.Bxe4 Qd1+ 39.Rxd1 Rxd1+ 40.Kg2 Rxh2+ 41.Bxh2 Rg1+ 42.Bxg1 a5 43.Qxc6+ Ka7 44.f3 mate
Really! Fischer was a GM and Weinstein an IM. Does anybody think Fischer was going to botch the win or that Weinstein wasn’t capable of realizing how bad his position was?! Do you understand how incredibly good GM’s (or even IM’s) are?
33.Qxh6 Rff8 34.Qxe6 Qa6 35.Qxd5 Rd8 36.Qxc4 Qc8 37.Bg2 Qd7 38.Bxe4 Qd1+ 39.Rxd1 Rxd1+ 40.Kg2 Rxh2+ 41.Bxh2 Rg1+ 42.Bxg1 a5 43.Qxc6+ Ka7 44.f3 mate
Yes I do indeed understand how incredibly good they are. But they are not God. You make it sound like, oh they are GMs/IMs so they can make no mistake. Not so. Clearly Fischer was aiming for a back rank mate. And these moves avoid that. Not only do they delay a mate, they can significantly weaken White's position. I am no grand master, but I don't hero worship either.
As a counter to your variation, consider this one:
33.Qxh6 Rff8
34.Qxe6 Qa6
35.Qxd5 Qc8
36.Qxc4 a6
You can still checkmate Black from here, and you can still find variations to further delay mate or further weaken White. Chess is not so cut and dried.
Obviously it is to much material loss. What is the point of delaying mate?
Well, chess is like life. Do you throw in the towel and shoot yourself when you find a few things went wrong and the end seems imminent, or do you stick it out and wait for a break?
If you can weaken your opponent and hold off mate, then you increase your own chances of drawing the game, forcing your opponent to make mistakes, and heck, if you are lucky even winning. From the variation I last posted Black has a significantly stronger position than Weinstein originally left it.
This diagram is in Bobby Fischer Teaches Chess. My wife is reading it and she didn't understand how it's an inevitable mate either. Fritz 13 says mate is 27 moves out, however black is down 27 pawns positionally =/
Really! Fischer was a GM and Weinstein an IM. Does anybody think Fischer was going to botch the win or that Weinstein wasn’t capable of realizing how bad his position was?! Do you understand how incredibly good GM’s (or even IM’s) are?
33.Qxh6 Rff8 34.Qxe6 Qa6 35.Qxd5 Rd8 36.Qxc4 Qc8 37.Bg2 Qd7 38.Bxe4 Qd1+ 39.Rxd1 Rxd1+ 40.Kg2 Rxh2+ 41.Bxh2 Rg1+ 42.Bxg1 a5 43.Qxc6+ Ka7 44.f3 mate
Yes I do indeed understand how incredibly good they are. But they are not God. You make it sound like, oh they are GMs/IMs so they can make no mistake. Not so. Clearly Fischer was aiming for a back rank mate. And these moves avoid that. Not only do they delay a mate, they can significantly weaken White's position. I am no grand master, but I don't hero worship either.
As a counter to your variation, consider this one:
33.Qxh6 Rff8
34.Qxe6 Qa6
35.Qxd5 Qc8
36.Qxc4 a6
You can still checkmate Black from here, and you can still find variations to further delay mate or further weaken White. Chess is not so cut and dried.
Your variation doesn't work after 35...Qc8 White does not have to play 36.Qxc4 36.Rb8 just simply wins as after 36..Qxb8 37.Rxb8,Rxb8 38.Bxb8 Black is done.
This is how Fischer won against Weinstein in 1960. Weinstein resigned after Qxh6. Of course this is 49 years later and I am sure someone else has already talked about it before, but has anyone noticed that a Rff8 move would have saved Weinstein from a mate. Or a Qf8 for that matter. I have tried to include two boards, don't know if they will work. First time posting here.
Here is how I thought Weinstein could have defended himself. I may be totally wrong, so correct me if I am.