Fischer was a great chess player - but an arrogant little shit!
There can be no doubt about that, whatever the reasons for his character.
Fisher vs. Kasparov
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Dec 22, 2009
0
#43
tonydal wrote:
Oh God, there's that most awful of modern-day words again: "inappropriate" (It's like what "Communist" used to be)...
a Victorian era word with a bad second life for sure. I share your dislike of it.
" communist " for me is equally as bad as "nazi " , if you examine history the commies were equally as murderous/despicable , maybe even more so. At least Fischer wasnt a commie , even though his mother and father were it seems.
Reb wrote:
" communist " for me is equally as bad as "nazi " , if you examine history the commies were equally as murderous/despicable , maybe even more so. At least Fischer wasnt a commie , even though his mother and father were it seems.
"At least Fischer wasnt a commie"
That's hilarious!
Dec 22, 2009
0
#46
tryst wrote:
"...brilliant but ill."
People say Fischer was "mentally disturbed", or "ill", as if their hero could not help himself. Like he had brain damage. Fischer merely had opinions about the world that I personally find to be way too simple, and insensitive. Just a jerk, is the most I would say. He chose his views. He was not forced into them through some malady of the mind, or by the U.S., Russia, Jews, or Women. The helpless and tragic Bobby Fischer image is really amusing. He probably would have told his worshipping fans with ever-ready excuses for his behaviour, to go jump in a lake.
Fischer my hero? nope- not even remotely. I am not a Fischer apologist. He was ill, either by being undiagnosed, or by his own twisted volition. That is an argument of locus of control which doesn't interest me.
Dec 22, 2009
0
#47
Either you were Fischer's lackey or you made the list of enemies. He railed against anyone who put any dominion over him - starting with Regina and ending with the US government.
This would, without any doubt, had been a great matchup. Neither would destroy the other, it could go either way. I'm not crazy about either player, but you shouldn't make your decision of who's an idiot and who's not. I'd go with Fischer, only because he wasn't beaten when he was knocked out of the WC glory. Sure he ran off without defending it, he just doesn't have guts, but that doesn't mean he stinks.
tryst wrote:
People say Fischer was "mentally disturbed", or "ill", as if their hero could not help himself. Like he had brain damage. Fischer merely had opinions about the world that I personally find to be way too simple, and insensitive. Just a jerk, is the most I would say. He chose his views. He was not forced into them through some malady of the mind, or by the U.S., Russia, Jews, or Women. The helpless and tragic Bobby Fischer image is really amusing. He probably would have told his worshipping fans with ever-ready excuses for his behaviour, to go jump in a lake.
It's obvious he had mental problems at a very early age. I don't have a strong opinion one way or another about him. Yes he said crazy awful things, but so do all crazy people, I don't really care. His chess is great, sure. But if you read about the way he behaved even at a very early age, it's obvious he had mental problems -- does this make up for anything? I don't care, it just is what it is, he was disturbed -- to say he wasn't means you don't know much about him.
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As for the Fischer Kasparov match it's hard to say. Fischer was at the height of his ability when he quit. It's impossible to accurately estimate the strength of any dominate champion in their prime for lack of comparison, all we know is what we ever know, he was simply better than everyone else.
Because such a champion is already easily one in a billion, I'm sure all the super-greats were all about the best humanity could produce and relatively equal to eachother.
In any case, best of Fischer vs best of Kasparov could only ever be conjecture.
Dec 23, 2009
0
#50
Fischer was good, but he would have lost the title to Karpov (if normal FIDE rules were played), in probably 1978 or 1980 cycles. I believe this partly because I think the Soviets maneuvered Karpov into the top challenger position before he was really ready, so he would have lost the match in 1975 (which should by all rights have been held in 1976). But I think that when Fischer took the WC it was something of a shock to the Soviets, they didn't really expect it to happen, and didn't really know how to deal with it at first. Once things calmed down a bit (like 1978 or 1980) Karpov would play Fischer in a rematch ( all this assumes that Fischer didn't quit), and Karpov would have 50 russian GMs all at 2750+ coaching and advising and prepping openings for him and so on. Fischer would not have had such back-up... He took the title from the Soviets in like a suprise attack, but he would not have been able to keep it up for so long, let alone a decade.....
This doesn't make Fischer a bad WC at all; Capablanca did not hold the WC crown for all that long, and he is still considered to be one of the strongest ever....
Morphy vs Anand: Now THAT would be an awesome match!!!!! 
I'd go for a Fischer win - if you could get F at his best to meet K at his best. Fischer did not just win the WC, on his way he crushed the soviet chess world, which was the chess world. No one has ever done that. He demolished any US opposition time and again - K could not do that. Korchnoi later admitted the pre-arrangement of games to disadvantage F, so his paranoia had a basis.
Fischer ... 11 - 0 win of US championship, and two 6-0 wins in candidates (at his best).
Kasparov only managed 7-4 against the ageing Korchnoi in their WC match.
In K's favour he has the highest ELO rating ever, but I understand it is generally agreed that there is a rating inflation effect that is difficult to quantify. I personally don't see there would have been much doubt over the outcome.
As for Fischer's personality and rants, the guy had problems.
What American players ever proved a problem for Kasparov?
One such natural US player is Yasser Sierawan....
Garry Kasparov beat Yasser Seirawan 3 to 1, with 2 draws OK, he won, but nothing like 11-0
A match situation isn´t the same as a tournament situation either though, what where fischers match score against for example, Reshevsky?
tryst wrote:
nimzo5 wrote:
Key takeways from this thread-
Fischer was brilliant but ill.
Spassky remains the classiest World Champion of all time- without Fischer he would be the one compared to Kasparov.
Someone in this thread cares more about their political agenda then the truth on the chessboard, which is inappropriate for a chess forum.
"...brilliant but ill."
People say Fischer was "mentally disturbed", or "ill", as if their hero could not help himself. Like he had brain damage. Fischer merely had opinions about the world that I personally find to be way too simple, and insensitive. Just a jerk, is the most I would say. He chose his views. He was not forced into them through some malady of the mind, or by the U.S., Russia, Jews, or Women. The helpless and tragic Bobby Fischer image is really amusing. He probably would have told his worshipping fans with ever-ready excuses for his behaviour, to go jump in a lake.
Did he really? Did he choose his mind? Perhaps he chose to be mentally unhealthy the same way you chose to be born a female, or the way you chose to be an American (embarrassingly so).
Dec 23, 2009
0
#57
ARandomPerson wrote:
How would a game between fisher and kasparov turn out? What moves would be next?
Check out: http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-players/fischer-mentally-disturbed-or-just-mean-spirited-jerk
I Fischer was completely dedicated to the Bc4 line as white in the sicilian. So, your hypothetical game is kind of silly.
Dec 23, 2009
0
#58
percivalfox wrote:
The position in the diagram is NOT the Najdorf variation, that would be 4. ...Nf6 instead of 4. ...Nc6, and, Fischer being Black here, you could be nearly 100% sure that he would play the Najdorf, but not what's in your diagram...
Except...that in the diagram, Fischer is white, and so he'd be playing the Bc4 line...
Kupov3 wrote:
tryst wrote:
nimzo5 wrote:
Key takeways from this thread-
Fischer was brilliant but ill.
Spassky remains the classiest World Champion of all time- without Fischer he would be the one compared to Kasparov.
Someone in this thread cares more about their political agenda then the truth on the chessboard, which is inappropriate for a chess forum.
"...brilliant but ill."
People say Fischer was "mentally disturbed", or "ill", as if their hero could not help himself. Like he had brain damage. Fischer merely had opinions about the world that I personally find to be way too simple, and insensitive. Just a jerk, is the most I would say. He chose his views. He was not forced into them through some malady of the mind, or by the U.S., Russia, Jews, or Women. The helpless and tragic Bobby Fischer image is really amusing. He probably would have told his worshipping fans with ever-ready excuses for his behaviour, to go jump in a lake.
Did he really? Did he choose his mind? Perhaps he chose to be mentally unhealthy the same way you chose to be born a female, or the way you chose to be an American (embarrassingly so).
"Did he choose his mind?" He chose to say what he said, genius.
Key takeways from this thread-
Fischer was brilliant but ill.
Spassky remains the classiest World Champion of all time- without Fischer he would be the one compared to Kasparov.
Someone in this thread cares more about their political agenda then the truth on the chessboard, which is inappropriate for a chess forum.
"...brilliant but ill."
People say Fischer was "mentally disturbed", or "ill", as if their hero could not help himself. Like he had brain damage. Fischer merely had opinions about the world that I personally find to be way too simple, and insensitive. Just a jerk, is the most I would say. He chose his views. He was not forced into them through some malady of the mind, or by the U.S., Russia, Jews, or Women. The helpless and tragic Bobby Fischer image is really amusing. He probably would have told his worshipping fans with ever-ready excuses for his behaviour, to go jump in a lake.