flagging : Is it unethical or part of the game

Nobody is stating that it's cheating or that it does not happen. The discussion is about the "ethical" part.

Btw, US culture is exactly one of the first thatcannot accept to loose, sorry to say

If somebody consistently beats you by making random moves then he is definitely better than you in this time control. To make it more more clear let me put it differently - you are a weaker player than him because you are unable to punish his inferior moves within the rules.

I am saying this as someone who generally plays 60|0 games where the clock is still a factor, but is less of a factor than most other time controls (especially those that you are mostly playing). Flagging is part of the game, and completely fair. I don't like it when it happens, but it is what it is. If it happens to me - my fault.

With respect, you played 3 000 bullet games. Such games are almost never won by chess skill. Bullet is something where time is pretty much always the deciding factor.

Plus, you played a lot of 5|0 games, I see 12 000 blitz games, even if some have the increment, that is speed chess, where time is still a very big factor.
I mean it is in the names - speed chess, blitz, bullet - so it is kind of revealing that playing fast is very important.

what a poor vision...

"Such games are almost never won by chess skill" the flagging manifesto is all in this statement. In addition, this statement is (partially) true only considering low level matches, and this is strictly the point: flagging is an attitude for bad players who compensate their lack of talent with a posing behaviour pretending speed can replace skills. And the worst thing is being proud of this!

Flagging happens, it's part of the rules (not of the game, be careful). Speed is part of the game (expecially in bullet and blitz), flagging is different: flagging is widthdawn from playing just to win on clock, which is different. If someone can't find the difference, there's nothing else to add, he/she's hopeless (and probably a 700/800 rate player)

My vision is supported by chess rules. Those "random" move players who beat you regularly will have higher ratings, better tournament results etc.

The chess game is always some sort of a compromise between a pure chess skill and time you have on your hand (unless it is some sort of a correspondence game). For games you play, time is a bigger factor than in longer games.

If I have a completely winning position and lose on time, it means my opponent had a better balance between chess skill and time usage and deserved to win. If that is not the case, why are we having different time controls at all.

We will not agree on this, so I will stop here.

https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/5401242879?tab=review

This was the game in question btw (September 5th 2020)

Agree that we can't agree...

How can you put at the same level a chess player and someone who think only to win despite any moral obligation?

BTW, I've just lost for 0.03s, from a position of 6.5 of advantage... are we sure it's a matter of beeing better? really really? is in the balance considerd also the connection lag (just an example of how much your way of thinking is fragile...)

Unethical: not conforming to a high moral standard : morally wrong

So answer is yes, depending on position and the moves played in the end.

However, bullet esp 1 min game is not suitable for a lot of players and can degrade your chess skills. A reasonable game would be 5min+5se incre or 10min +5 s incr . If cheat trolls were removed those would be the best time controls. With current state of trolls on this site, I prefer 5 minutes.

note that 1 min games are also infested with the trolls as well so running to that ridiculous time control is more damaging to improving your chess.

You mean... a game such as this one:

I am sure you've lost sleep over that one. After all, it is so morally wrong to win these type of games.

To quote you:
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(just an example of how much your way of thinking is fragile...)

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What you are doing is accepting the rules of the game, and then are dissatisfied when they don't go your way.

When you are so insistent, if you are so against flagging, why didn't you resign games such as these as well:

Completely lost for you, so it is really not nice of you to win this game.

Or how about this win of yours:

I guess when you win such games, it is morally correct to do so.

There is no moral obligation regarding what moves to play.

Maybe try to understand what's a consensus on flagging https://www.chess.com/terms/flagging-chess

Connection lag is a random factor that can go both ways. You agreed to play under existing rules, on existing platform with a full knowledge the the lag or disconnections can interfere with the result.

Anyway the result of just one game doesn't define who is better. But if somebody beats you consistently he is definitely better at this time control, no matter if the wins were achieved via checkmate of flagging.

It's such a topic that cannot have a straight answer. Both sides have their views and opinions, which is understandable. It's like asking whether the right wing or left wing ideology is correct. In my opinion, flagging is fine in any circumstances, be it online or offline. My opponent played too slow, that's not my fault 🤷 whine as much as you want but sorry, I am taking the points. Time management is an integral part of the game which cannot be neglected. While I may feel sad losing the won game, it is still according to the rules and thus ultimately I myself is the one responsible for that.

exactly, if you complain about flagging then blame the game, not the player. the players are just playing how the game is made. Don't like it? Change the game.

thanks for understanding my point.

Agree that it's full of trolls pretending they are player

happy you have a long time to spend to look on all my matches...As you are there, can you please crosscheck how many are in one direction and how many not?

Same, please check also how many times I resigned when I blundered. That would be fair to do, not propose only a couple of matches where I flag (btw, usually I apologize in this case, for sure I'm not proud when happens).

But, be careful: I'm not stating that "time management" is not part of the game.

What I contest, is when some "players" make it the only part... With moves that start to be random since the beginning because they have the only aim to win by clock.

I think this is far from the spirit of the game even if (I agree) fully on the rules. That's the reason why they are called "flagger" and not "cheater". But, as other understood, we are talking of fair-play, not of cheating.

for a further undestanding:

not cheating is the basic attitude for fair play, but fair play is not only following the rules, but also some moral obligation between players.

I think that "flaggers" have simply a low standard about "moral obligation", which is fine (I mean, we are talking of online chess, not of life/death of peace/war), but at least they should be consciuous of what they are doing.

We all should aim to the highest standard I think, not asking the others to reach the bog of mediocrity because we can't do better.

Not really. All it takes is just clicking on let's say your bullet rating, or blitz or rapid, doesn't matter which (then full stats, then completed games). Then you look at the right and list wins by timeout (you can list games by various other things as well). It is enough to hover over a few such games (and see the end position) to find such examples quickly.

All these are from the page 1 of bullet or blitz, and I didn't even went through the whole page, far from it.

No need to look how many you've lost, surely you've lost a fair share of such games, as you are playing speed chess, it would be illogical if you didn't. Safe to say, there are plenty of both. In any case, you are complaining about something you've been doing regularly yourself, which is diminishing the strength of your case.