Fun With Graphs

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AlCzervik
blueemu wrote:
hoodoothere wrote:

Great work! I wonder why move time would indicate cheating? Does the bot take the same amount of time every turn?

For people, the more complicated the position, the slower the moves.

For bots, the move time depends only on the search depth setting.

i don't doubt this is true. however,

there are times i go to relieve myself or get another beer during a game. what might matter more is that i do it whenever. i don't care if i lose a game because i got up to pet my cats or take a piss. 

maybe there is a human element missing in the analysis that cc uses, odd as it might seem as we all know their detection is top notch.

there are also times, recently, i am 'frozen', and it takes me more time to move than what might be considered normal? i can't explain it other than, i used to know where to move. now i don't. it would be comical if a person like me was considered a cheat due to how much time they took to move. 

llama51
AlCzervik wrote:
blueemu wrote:
hoodoothere wrote:

Great work! I wonder why move time would indicate cheating? Does the bot take the same amount of time every turn?

For people, the more complicated the position, the slower the moves.

For bots, the move time depends only on the search depth setting.

i don't doubt this is true. however,

there are times i go to relieve myself or get another beer during a game. what might matter more is that i do it whenever. i don't care if i lose a game because i got up to pet my cats or take a piss. 

maybe there is a human element missing in the analysis that cc uses, odd as it might seem as we all know their detection is top notch.

there are also times, recently, i am 'frozen', and it takes me more time to move than what might be considered normal? i can't explain it other than, i used to know where to move. now i don't. it would be comical if a person like me was considered a cheat due to how much time they took to move. 

It all averages out over a large sample of games. There's no way you always pet your cat for exactly 10 seconds.

llama51

For example, here's a guy who seemingly pets his cat for exactly 10 seconds, over 100s of games.

It's amazing how many animal lovers there are among high rated untitled rapid players wink.png

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hoodoothere

At least once in a while he subverts the "cat" engine and makes a 2-3 second move that he deems obvious I guess. Hence the slightly bimodal graph. If you need another lab rat you can do me, to fill in your analysis by using a mid-rated 1400-1700 player. Some think I cheat because I am much higher rated in the slower games. Actually, I'm old and can't do a proper analysis in a short period of time and don't seem to have good "chess instincts" required to play well in a short game. I make way to many crappy moves to be cheating.

llama51
hoodoothere wrote:

At least once in a while he subverts the "cat" engine and makes a 2-3 second move that he deems obvious I guess. Hence the slightly bimodal graph. If you need another lab rat you can do me, to fill in your analysis by using a mid-rated 1400-1700 player. Some think I cheat because I am much higher rated in the slower games. Actually, I'm old and can't do a proper analysis in a short period of time and don't seem to have good "chess instincts" required to play well in a short game. I make way to many crappy moves to be cheating.

You're extremely normal looking, just like most people tongue.png

I went ahead and did a red line on top. It seems to do a good job of predicting the shape for most people.

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HandsomeDesert
Could you do one for me?


Thanks!
hoodoothere
llama51 wrote:
hoodoothere wrote:

At least once in a while he subverts the "cat" engine and makes a 2-3 second move that he deems obvious I guess. Hence the slightly bimodal graph. If you need another lab rat you can do me, to fill in your analysis by using a mid-rated 1400-1700 player. Some think I cheat because I am much higher rated in the slower games. Actually, I'm old and can't do a proper analysis in a short period of time and don't seem to have good "chess instincts" required to play well in a short game. I make way to many crappy moves to be cheating.

You're extremely normal looking, just like most people

I went ahead and did a red line on top. It seems to do a good job of predicting the shape for most people.

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Wow, thanks! Hope you did not spend too much time on it. How long does it take to do one?

llama51
HandsomeDesert wrote:
Could you do one for me?


Thanks!

Probably tomorrow.

llama51
hoodoothere wrote:
llama51 wrote:
hoodoothere wrote:

At least once in a while he subverts the "cat" engine and makes a 2-3 second move that he deems obvious I guess. Hence the slightly bimodal graph. If you need another lab rat you can do me, to fill in your analysis by using a mid-rated 1400-1700 player. Some think I cheat because I am much higher rated in the slower games. Actually, I'm old and can't do a proper analysis in a short period of time and don't seem to have good "chess instincts" required to play well in a short game. I make way to many crappy moves to be cheating.

You're extremely normal looking, just like most people

I went ahead and did a red line on top. It seems to do a good job of predicting the shape for most people.

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Wow, thanks! Hope you did not spend too much time on it. How long does it take to do one?

It's pretty close to fully automatic now. Maybe takes a few minutes. Mostly me inputting the username and what I want, then saving the files to the places I want.

llama51

I downloaded some big batches today, for example from @MITerryble who played a lot of marathon sessions recently for the league stuff. He also played a lot of different types of games (daily, rapid, blitz, and bullet) so that was a useful test.

AlCzervik

petting our cats is underrated! wink.png

llama51
HandsomeDesert wrote:
Could you do one for me?


Thanks!

 

browncobra123

Could you do one for me please?

alphaous

@llama51's graph service! Everyone come get personalized graphs today!

llama51

I'm not running into any snags lately, so I think most of the kinks have been worked out.

Some behind the scenes stuff

 - Chess.com gives you all games played, and in the order they were played. So variants, daily games, and games with zero moves have to be discarded. I also discard rapid games played at time control over 30 minutes per side (since I don't want to graph 60|0 and 10|0 together)

 - Some people play team matches with non-standard titles. A title like @%"?<$%>{} can potentially screw things up, also some characters can't be parsed by the program itself. I don't know if you can put emojis in the title, but characters like that.

 - For the animated part I switched from 50 games per frame to a set number of moves per frame. I think this makes better sense as now each frame has the same number of moves.

llama51
browncobra123 wrote:

Could you do one for me please?

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Rapid games only:

llama51

Finally I found someone who shows it clearly grin.png

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llama51

Well, I have 2300 pictures now heh.

Most of them are pngs that get converted to gifs, but yeah, saved ~30 people's worth. Got some good examples of different kinds of players.

One type I ran into is kind of interesting.

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Pretty much all of this person's games are 10|0. Their times are shifted a few seconds forward from what's common... but IMO this just means they take their time. If there were NO moves below, say, 5 seconds, then that would be strange, or if the shape were different, but it's a gradual decline on both sides. I think they're just habitually cautious or something.

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And another of the same type.

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llama51
llama51 wrote:

Finally I found someone who shows it clearly 

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Found 6 graphs like this among the top 100 untitled rapid players.

Untitled meaning overall they're in the top 300, but they're top 100 if you only count untitled players.

I limited it to games no older than 2 years old... if you're wondering who among those 100 played the most overall, it was this dude with over 8300 rapid games (and when adding in blitz and bullet, over 13,000 total):

@chessrook5t1

Like everyone with 1000s of games in a graph, his was nice and smooth

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The most disgusting graph award belongs to this guy (below).

Sure only a few games makes graphs look bad, but there were plenty with only a few games, and none as ugly as this one lol.

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Ilampozhil25

me with the new updates please(you have the data already so it should be quick)