Glitch in the system?

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ScandinavianScoundrel

Imagine a game where White has a King on c8, a Knight on b5, and a Queen on h7. Black has a King on a8, a Pawn on a7, and a Bishop on b6. White to move.

In a last second time scramble, White tries to play Qb7 Mate, but mouseslips and plays Qxa7+. A more showy way to win, actually, since after ...Bxa7, White mates with Nc7+. But, wait! The chess.com system, after the Queen is captured, only sees Knight vs. Bishop, and declares it a Draw due to insufficient mating material, before White gets to play Nc7 Mate!

Martin_Stahl
ScandinavianScoundrel wrote:

Imagine a game where White has a King on c8, a Knight on b5, and a Queen on h7. Black has a King on a8, a Pawn on a7, and a Bishop on b6. White to move.

In a last second time scramble, White tries to play Qb7 Mate, but mouseslips and plays Qxa7+. A more showy way to win, actually, since after ...Bxa7, White mates with Nc7+. But, wait! The chess.com system, after the Queen is captured, only sees Knight vs. Bishop, and declares it a Draw due to insufficient mating material, before White gets to play Nc7 Mate!

Link to the game? My guess is white ran out of time and would have lost but black did not have sufficient material to mate, having only the king, so it was a draw.

ScandinavianScoundrel
Martin_Stahl wrote:
ScandinavianScoundrel wrote:

Imagine a game where White has a King on c8, a Knight on b5, and a Queen on h7. Black has a King on a8, a Pawn on a7, and a Bishop on b6. White to move.

In a last second time scramble, White tries to play Qb7 Mate, but mouseslips and plays Qxa7+. A more showy way to win, actually, since after ...Bxa7, White mates with Nc7+. But, wait! The chess.com system, after the Queen is captured, only sees Knight vs. Bishop, and declares it a Draw due to insufficient mating material, before White gets to play Nc7 Mate!

Link to the game? My guess is white ran out of time and would have lost but black did not have sufficient material to mate, having only the king, so it was a draw.

I needed to be more precise, when I said to imagine a game. Nothing like this has ever happened, as far as I know, but I wonder what would happen, if a game ever did play out that way. Obviously, it IS _possible_ to mate with either side of King and Knight vs. King and Bishop. For example, imagine a final position like this: White has a King on b6, and a Bishop on b7, mating the Black King on a8, because of the escape being blocked by his Knight on b8, White's last move being Bb7 from c8.

Martin_Stahl

Yeah, I misunderstood. In your given example, it's a draw here.

https://support.chess.com/article/128-what-does-insufficient-mating-material-mean

ScandinavianScoundrel
Insufficient to force mate almost all of the time, but theoretically possible. On the other hand, players can win on time a whole bunch of material down, having just a lone Pawn which is going nowhere.Martin_Stahl wrote:

Yeah, I misunderstood. In your given example, it's a draw here.

https://support.chess.com/article/128-what-does-insufficient-mating-material-mean

EndgameEnthusiast2357

This is yet another example of the insanity of using a system thats doesn't consider the piece count on both sides. FIDE rules should be implemented for flagging, as of checkmate is possible in anyway, running out of time should be a loss. Saying "it's rare and not worth the programming" is equivalent to not having an option to under-promote, as it's "very rare", as well. Black could know he's going to get mated here, by force, (not a help-mate, a basic forced mate endgame), and deliberately let his time run out to get a draw:

Every time black moves the king it is because moving the pawn would result in mate sooner. Imagine taking the effort to learn a knight vs pawn endgame, only for your opponent to get a draw by losing on time when you have a forced mate. How the USCF rule is even a thing is beyond ridiculous.

Martin_Stahl
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:

..How the USCF rule is even a thing is beyond ridiculous.

This is a win for white under US Chess rules if black times out.

EndgameEnthusiast2357

Yeah only if white can demonstrate the forced mate. Whether it's forced or not should be irrelevant anyway. It's easy to blunder into a mate like that if you are low on time and pushing your pawn without thinking about where your king is. Here's an even cooler example from one of my books:

At any point after kxg2, white has only a knight left and can force mate, but there's no guarantee either side will see it. Black can deliberately flag at any point after White's material count drops to 1 knight and get a draw.

EndgameEnthusiast2357

Or this famous puzzle:

With this site's rules, it may even be better for white to just try and win in a knight and bishop endgame, since the mate in 3 is a gamble if black is aware of the mating material vs timeout rules.