Greatest Chess Talent in History

I'll vote for Magnus Carlsen.

There has been chat about innate ability and learnt ability. I always liked the Capablanca - Marshall game, where Marshall uncorked his gambit (although it has been said that it had been played before).

However, I really do think that Capa was presented with a problem over the board - which he accepted, rose to the challenge, and won. I think that this is an example of innate ability.

Perhaps there are more games like this, where a chessplayer has perhaps been 'found out' as it were by failing to adapt to new ideas on the board. Any suggestions anyone?

So, I'm going to go for Capa :)

CURRENT STANDINGS

1. Capablanca

2. Morphy (gaining significant ground since the last poll)

3. Reshevsky

4. Tal

5. Alekhine

6. Fischer

6. Kasparov (probably tied for 6th now)

We also got a shout out to a Junge and a Sultan Kahn, and two votes for the phenom Magnus Carlsen :)

if we are talking about innate ability it is me :-) as far as i know it is still deep down  in  there somewhere and the process of trying to get it out really  ate  me up! some day i might actually get some of it out were i can use it, but on a serious note, Judit Polgar holds the record for the youngest grandmaster ever (age 15), a title she stole from fischer after he said that there wasn't a woman in the world who could beat him at chess even if he sacrificed both his knights to them early in the game. Few people know about her though because she is not american, the truth is that even she was taught and "innate" ability can only be defined by how the brain thinks or processes information. It could be that the person who posseses the most of this innate ability to think in the way that is necessary to play perfect chess could probably be someone who has never played chess before ever and therefore his/her ability has never been seen. As for those who are popular in the chess kingdom i think Tav was pretty awesome and Kasparov.

It's difficult to get into the "innate" business with me re subjects like this. I think that if you look at one's history re prodigious development as a youth and low workrate-for-big-results ratio, Capablanca would be hard to beat. He made chess appear simple in the way he went about things, although we can appreciate that it wasn't and isn't.

Fischer and Alekhine's capacities for study are well-known in comparison.

Morphy's history also finds some parallels with Capa. A prodigy, positionally astute (a pioneer in that respect re his era), simplicity in the clarity of his tactical vision...

Tal? Perhaps the most inventive player at the world championship level, but he honed that through his reputation of a "take on all comers" chessaholic. Had he not been plagued with kidney and other health issues throughout his life, who knows what more he could have achieved as a champion?

Kasparov? He's closer to Fischer than Capa for "pure" talent. What sets him apart is the length of his career at the highest level. His genius was a product of a lot of work, even if did get a ton of analytic help from folks in his pay over his career. The longevity at the top aspect puts him with Lasker.

My chess player likes: the wizardry of Tal, the idiosyncratic inventiveness of Petrosian, the simplicity of Capa, the fight of a Lasker, the accuracy of a Fischer. My favourite player is Karpov, so you figure that out. LOL

I think my bias for positional players aside, I admire players who have a blend of these traits.

Magnus Carlsen is one of those players that rise up every generation and one steps back and says "whoa, I wonder how this will play out." It's fun to see top players whose styles echo a variety of great players past. Carlsen is one of those special players, I believe.

Russ

Morphy's attacks fascinated me enough to look through all of his games I could find.  That boy had some pizazz.   I get how others in this discussion are more dominant or sturdier in their play, but Morphy stands out to me as a talent.

I tried to list my top 5 and ended up with 8. I don't believe Reshevsky belongs that high unless we are rating child prodigies.

1. Capablanca

2. Morphy

3. Tal

4. Fischer

5. Alekhine

6. Kasparov

7. Lasker

8. Botvinnik

I don't think Fischer possessed an innate ability others didn't, I think he just spent far more time studying the game than anyone else, even the Soviets. They would spend maybe 8 hours a day studying chess, where as Fischer would spend in excess of 10 hours. Chess was life to him. So I think his mastery of the game came more from hard work than innate ability.

Fischer clearly had some spatial capacities and ability to calculate in open positions that excelled over most of his peers. The study level you cite is what propelled him far and away over the field in his era.

Tal definitely had combinative power but he was at heart a complicationist (my term). Fischer? Clean, logical, and deadly. To paraphrase Fischer -- unlike Tal -- Fischer would kill one with his 40 good moves over someone's three or four bolts from the blue in a game. I think people of my generation often go gaga over Fischer precisely because of this.

While someone like Tal would go for the throat by rattling his opponent along unsure lines, Fischer just ground people down OTB by being accurate to the point of "psyching" his foe out. I have read about computer studies that rate Capablanca and Fischer as most "error-free" in their games among the very top grandmasters and that doesn't surprise me.

I view chess fundamentally as a game of struggle, so the Tals and Laskers of the world have their rightful place in the Parthenon of chess along with more "clinical" players. Fischer worked as hard or harder than anyone before or since to get to that lofty realm -- then vanished for 20 years. As much as study is vital to get players to an elite level, sometimes that comes with a price of burnout and eventual collapse if coupled with some psychological disturbance/imbalance. Fischer paid that price in full, IMO.

Russ

"Who in history possessed the greatest innate chess ability? Who was the greatest chess talent of all time?"" - brandonQDSH

I am sorry to disappoint you, guys, but there is NO ONE who  can possess the GREATEST INNATE CHESS ABILITY!

AS IT STANDS NOW:

1. Capablanca

2. Morphy (getting closer to 1st place with every post)

3. Tal (been getting a lot of steady love in the polls)

4. Reshevsky

5.Alekhine

6. Fischer

6. Kasparov

A nice nod to Judit Polgar from pastoryoshi :)

We also have lots of people voting for themselves LOL :)) 

I like this post, it really opens a number of questions and gives props to players who many do not know by name. I have not read all the posts, so I apologize if I repeat others. I have see the references to Kahn, which many have never heard of. I would also hope that Pillsbury would be mentioned as he lost his life early while really exploding.

As for the best ever question, Chessbase.com has a number of articles on this topic based on actual statistics. They separate a number of different types of dominance. For example, the best streak against major competition is given to Fischer when he completely destroyed Petrosian, Larsen, and then gave Spassky a two game lead before ripping out the World Championship. Anyway, Fischer was given best total estimate ELO over a short period of time, Kaspy won for total dominance, and some other stats. I think Lasker and Cap had some categories as well. I am writing from memory..anyway check the archives...I might post it as a blog entry sometime soon. I like the discussion.

 Capablanca and Rui Lopez were the most talented players in all history.

Fischer. Fischer was only 13 when he sacked a queen (D Byrne v R Fischer 1956: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1008361 )!! Who does that? *No one* at the top level would consider that move today.

By the way, Momadu, I think you're talking about chessmetrics.com. This is interesting: http://db.chessmetrics.com/CM2/Summary.asp?Params=1840AASSSSS3S000000000000111000000000000010100

Most dominant player between 1840 and 2005 is Lasker: 24.3 years as #1.

The highest rated player during those years? Fischer: 2895.

If you don't like Fischer, then I'd have to vote Morphy.

I was very recently looking at the chessmetrics material you mention. Fischer acheives most dominating gap between #1 and #2 when he blows away Larsen, and Pertrosian... but considered in terms of overall career chessmetrics doesn't consider Fischer close to the most dominating players ever: Kasparov and Karpov by a wide margin -- after that are Lasker and Capablanca depending on what your priorities are. Fischer had a very bright flash at the top, but he just didn't stay there long enough to be a true dominator. The real revelation IMO is how incredibly strong, statistically, Karpov was... if Kasparov and Karpov hadn't been playing in the same period, with so many games head to head... we'd be arguing ad nauseam about which one was better... another revelation is how very dominating Steinitz was... Steinitz gets over looked these days... he's just not a fashionable guy. Lasker is a much more attractive personality... but Steinitz was no slouch.

 I propose the question:

"Who in history possessed the greatest INNATE chess ability? Who was the greatest chess talent of all time?" - brandonQDSH

Webster defined INNATE as existing in, belonging to, or determined by factors present in an individual FROM BIRTH;  originating in or derived from the mind of the constitution of the intellect rather than FROM EXPERIENCE.

Chess is an acquired skill learned and developed from experience.

The greatest chess player of all time can be gauged by the QUALITY of games they played and against whom as voted by rated players.

If you will nominate someone, please include the game/s (pgn) they played. So everybody can RATE the game in accordance with his standard.

Rating the game - 1 to 10 10 being the greatest

Level of players

A = Beginners (1300 below)
B = Advanced Beginners (1301 to 1500)
C = More advanced ((1501 to 2000)
D = Masters (2001 to 2200)
E = IM FM GM

ex. A10, B6 , C8, E5 etc.

Submit all your nominations  with their game/s in pgn to a new forum. ex. Fischer - Greatest Chess Player or Morphy - Greatest Chess Player, Capablanca - Greatest Chess Player, etc.

The rest of us guys, we cast our votes and every month, we tally the scores and average them according to levels.

Sooner or later, we will have a more definite opinion on Who  is the Greatest Chess Player of All time!!!

My suggestion will definitely have a more credible outcome based on games played rather than by popularity.

And we can even vote for people whom they think they should be included. (lol)

It's an interesting question. In my opionion MORPHY.

   I  surprised that nobody wrote about Philidore. He was the first modern player. He discovered importance the centre of chessboard. The thrue is that

He is the father of positional play. He was over his generation.

Philidor really was talented.

The third was Capa. He was so very talented, that almost didin't work.

 Szymon(Simon) Winawer was amazing chessplayer. He was incalculable.

Winawer was a complete amateur. He was able to beat the world's best players as an ameteur. He never read any chess literature.He never had a coach. He never playd in a club. I know his career stories ,byceause he was a Pole ,like me.

He won severals tournaments ,and left world of chess,helping his father in the family buissnes.

When he was a boy ,only then,sometimes observed chessplayers in the chess cafe. His father sometimes was in the cafe, on a buissnes trips. How can an amateur win with the best players? He was a genius.

Zukertort

Rubinstein

Blackbourne

Reshevski