Hans confirmed to be cheating by chess.com (CONCLUSIVE PROOF AND DAMNING EVIDENCE)
So everything we already knew he cheats online no one thought he only cheated twice and he mostly cheats in fast games to no one surprise bens take is 100% correct. So if I understand the article on WSJ right they banned him on a new account he hadn't cheated on for games eh played in 2020 because magnus threw a fit. The " we reassessed his behavior form years ago because magnus got salty but he didn't tell us to directly we promise" this line is a joke to me. Didn't cheat on the new account invited him to play and act all nice right before the cup but as soon as magnus cries they "change their mind" based on things from 2020? sus af. We all knew hans cheated more than he said online I really hope that giant tome has more info than what was presented in the WSJ. Chess.com saying we may decide to revoke our second chance and publicly bury you as we see fit at any time because we have the power get shafted kid.
Chess.com's official statement said that Carlsen's withdrawal from the tournament and their decision to ban Hans from chess.com as well as take away his seat in their next tournament are separate issues. The issue, is, "Did he cheat over the board." they are gathering evidence, and analyzing the games he played. It's not because Carlsen withdrew, though, it may have been the icing on the cake, however, it's more about the fact that his rise to the top is suspicious, as according to the numbers, his rise is better than anyone else's rise in history, even Bobby Fisher.
I don't actually know I kind of just assumed that's not as bad I guess the timing is still sus af and begs the question why don't they ban the other top gm's why cant we see their stats? because chess.com and magnus didn't bait them into saying something so they could unload on them? seriously? "we invite you to this thing glad you don't cheat anymore." then "Oh our new golden boy magnus is salty so we have changed out mind. " "oh did you mention how we just treated you unfairly and try and make us look bad for being shady? time to bury you kid"
Why doesn't chess.com ban the other GMs?
The way it works. Corperations can do whatever the f they want. They don't have to tell you why they are not banning the other GMs. The fact that they don't, doesn't prove anything, because, it's reasonable to believe that each case is separate and has different handling methods and chess.com chooses to remain private on their anti-cheating measures. 1, to protect the said cheaters, and 2, to prevent cheaters from gaining insights into how their algorithm works.
So can we clarify the timing they knew when he likely cheated? is this Info they have had for years and did nothing about or they didn't catch this until now I'm confused?
It takes time to gather conclusive evidence...
The question is still, what was Hans' method for cheating OTB?
This is the real question. I was taught that if I am going to accuse someone of something, I better have proof. But in this case, no one even has a suggestion as to what Niemann did.
The fact of the matter is, Carlsen's protest is about increasing the anti-cheating measures OTB because he believes, cheating is too easy to do, and believes, due to the nature of Han's rise, Han has been cheating all along OTB. Yeah, he doesn't have proof, but the purpose of this is not to prove Han's cheating necessarily but to just increase anti-cheating measures OTB. That is the goal.
Ultimately the accusation is that cheating OTB is too easy. Carlsen has the right to believe that someone is cheating OTB, and can freely choose to not play him out of protest.

The fact of the matter is, Carlsen's protest is about increasing the anti-cheating measures OTB because he believes, cheating is too easy to do, and believes, due to the nature of Han's rise, Han has been cheating all along OTB. Yeah, he doesn't have proof, but the purpose of this is not to prove Han's cheating necessarily but to just increase anti-cheating measures OTB. That is the goal.
Ultimately the accusation is that cheating OTB is too easy. Carlsen has the right to believe that someone is cheating OTB, and can freely choose to not play him out of protest.
This is just your speculation, and it is not very well founded in facts. Magnus never spoke up for better anti-cheating measures in general. All he did was accuse Hans of cheating, in very cryptic and roundabout way at first, then later quite openly.
Also, interestingly enough, he never "chose to not play him". In the Sinquefield Cup, he withdrew after he played Hans, so he chose to play Hans and then to not play the other guys in the tournament. That is the exact opposite.

The cry of Stats alone=cheating is ridiculous to the extreme in OTB play. Keeping integrity in the game I love and have spent over four decades in as a player, coach, organizer, and tournament director is at the very heart of my desire, and hundreds of others equally dedicated
chess arbiters around the world. I have seen players rated U400 OTB defeat those well over a thousand rating points higher-well over a dozen times. Is this statistically probable-of course not. But the attempt to "prove" someone is guilty because of an "unexplained" burst of heretofore not known brilliance, steals such "divine" and rare moments from many quickly
advancing players, esp, youths such as Hans without empirical evidence such as illegal notes,
laptops, communication devices, etc, is simply wrong. I have heard high-rated TDs state that
players rated X are incapable of certain move combinations. Absolute nonsense. The
"witch hunt" of rapidly progressing players absent of ACTUAL PROOF must end, and should
be regarded with as much severity as cheating itself - for it is these continued unfounded allegations which are striking at the heart of the game we love.

Beating a 1,400 is not in any way divine brilliance, 400 is not a real rating and most likely wasn’t accurate. That is in no way comparable to what we are talking about here.

The cry of Stats alone=cheating is ridiculous to the extreme in OTB play. Keeping integrity in the game I love and have spent over four decades in as a player, coach, organizer, and tournament director is at the very heart of my desire, and hundreds of others equally dedicated
chess arbiters around the world. I have seen players rated U400 OTB defeat those well over a thousand rating points higher-well over a dozen times. Is this statistically probable-of course not. But the attempt to "prove" someone is guilty because of an "unexplained" burst of heretofore not known brilliance, steals such "divine" and rare moments from many quickly
advancing players, esp, youths such as Hans without empirical evidence such as illegal notes,
laptops, communication devices, etc, is simply wrong. I have heard high-rated TDs state that
players rated X are incapable of certain move combinations. Absolute nonsense. The
"witch hunt" of rapidly progressing players absent of ACTUAL PROOF must end, and should
be regarded with as much severity as cheating itself - for it is these continued unfounded allegations which are striking at the heart of the game we love.
He's cheated many times in the past, and in prize money events as well. And yet you somehow aren't regarding it with "severity" like you say you do.

NeatGreatFire- to my knowledge, Hans has NEVER been caught cheating in an OTB game. That was my point. Accusations without proof, of which NONE has been provided in the OTB games
of Hans, are as HARMFUL to the game as those who cheat. It does appear that you agree with
the chess.com approach that "burning" thousands of innocents of cheating through some non-cheating supposed "fair-play violation" at the "altar of integrity" is a justifiable sacrifice. I, and for that matter, nearly EVERY arbiter I know has MAjOR problems with this mindset. Whatever Hans may or may not have done in online play has ZERO relevance to the OTB game, period.
Simply because a server such as chess.com bans an account for a fair-play violation:
a. does NOT mean an individual was cheating
b. it is unjust (until chess.com provides clear proof of cheating-which they have been
unwilling to do, and outright WRONG for others to "label" those accused as cheaters.
CLEARLY it violates the integrity of the game to FALSELY accuse and accuse without hard
PRESENTED clear evidence as does CHEATING itself.

Beating a 1,400 is not in any way divine brilliance, 400 is not a real rating and most likely wasn’t accurate. That is in no way comparable to what we are talking about here.
Scottrf, I have also seen those rated 700 defeat 1800++ players. And it is ABSOLUTELY
comparable here. Before one opens the mouth, use the brain, find the clear hard non-statistical evidence of cheating in OTB games or SHUT UP. Further I have seen those
rated 1200 defeat masters. Rare, statistically improbable, but it happens. I have over
2,500 tournaments directed since 2005 and have witnessed player performances from absolute beginner to GM. I grow weary of the truly uninformed media avalanche from
such irresponsible rags as the NY Times, etc.

What I don't get is when he beat Carlsen he said "Chess speaks for itself".
I know it's a meme now but why did he say that? Why did he walk away? Why didn't he explain?
could just be a prepped mic drop statement
I guess you're right
If I may add some context.. His whole attitude is "I am confident, I don't play this respect game, because this so called respect makes you weak. Enough respect, let's be athletes, let's go to War on and off the board. Just look at Nepo, he was constantly respectful towards Magnus in the World Championship, and that's why he wasn't a fierce competitor, he was forced to give these interviews where he basically praises Magnus and has to be all politically correct and nice to him because he is champion. He was basically acting like a Magnus fan who is trying his luck to beat him, modestly... Enough!! This socially structured system of someone powerful demanding your respect is what makes him 'immortal', it's his psychological grasp over the competition. I do not respect him, I can destroy him... I'm just as good as he is!" etc...
So he has this attitude of not playing by the "social rules" of chess... So he dosen't give the post match interview and he is tries to glorify himself and build up his ego which is something very weird in the chess world because it ussually just dosen't work at all, as Anish Giri pointed out, chess is not a sport.
Then he beats Magnus and you know the rest, but this has become a meme because "Chess speaks for itself" is also used by Hans' haters who believe the stats, aka "the chess games themselves" speak, and what they are saying is "guilty". Also in their perception it's incriminating that he won't give the interviews and proves he can't analyze and is therefore using assistance, somehow, who knows how. Also they are just ridiculing his "mic drop", which was frankly quite awkward. Again, trying to get in to his head and trolling him that he's extremely uncool and awkward on top of everything else. Apparently these immediate post match "before I looked at the game" interviews are indeed some kind of anti-cheating measure, and he seems to just avoid it, breaking this norm, showing no respect to what's expected of him, again.
What can I say... He wanted war he got war.

Beating a 1,400 is not in any way divine brilliance, 400 is not a real rating and most likely wasn’t accurate. That is in no way comparable to what we are talking about here.
Scottrf, I have also seen those rated 700 defeat 1800++ players. And it is ABSOLUTELY
comparable here. Before one opens the mouth, use the brain, find the clear hard non-statistical evidence of cheating in OTB games or SHUT UP. Further I have seen those
rated 1200 defeat masters. Rare, statistically improbable, but it happens. I have over
2,500 tournaments directed since 2005 and have witnessed player performances from absolute beginner to GM. I grow weary of the truly uninformed media avalanche from
such irresponsible rags as the NY Times, etc.
Can you share one of the games of a 1,200 beating a master?
Regardless, that is far less likely than Niemann’s rise (never before seen) and accuracy over 8 different OTB games (never before seen).

I have over
2,500 tournaments directed since 2005
You direct 2-3 tournaments every week? Maybe you mean sections, because 3 tournaments in a week is silly.

NeatGreatFire- to my knowledge, Hans has NEVER been caught cheating in an OTB game.
Hans admitted to cheating in money events online.

I have over
2,500 tournaments directed since 2005
You direct 2-3 tournaments every week? Maybe you mean sections, because 3 tournaments in a week is silly.
players grinding rating - hey man i may be tired and burnout from that but i want that rating

I have over
2,500 tournaments directed since 2005
You direct 2-3 tournaments every week? Maybe you mean sections, because 3 tournaments in a week is silly.
players grinding rating - hey man i may be tired and burnout from that but i want that rating
Directing OTB tournaments isn't the same as grinding rating, but ok.
"It certainly brings attention to chess". Maybe the wrong kind.....before this, you couldn't even THINK about cheating in the main forums.....let alone have half a dozen threads about it. God Bless You Hans......weather your guilty or innocent.....we just wanna send those moderators to the pit of misery for a change.
We all knew this day was coming Ron. It was just a matter of when. When we have reached a point where you get your banana scanned? That is actually laughable and is such an embarrassment to the game.
Well, you just *know* what would have happened had the banana *not* been scanned. People would be screaming, asking why the banana wasn't scanned...
So what happens if someone brings a watermelon in?
Snack time!