Has anyone else experienced clock manipulation in Bullet matches?

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llama47
Martin_Stahl wrote:
canadian_rt wrote:

I was going to start defending chess.com and then I saw this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M426V7ty8uA
This has basically never happened to me but, nice lag compensation chess.com! That's a 30 second match that's lasted 5 minutes

 

If the site allowed all lag, it may have even been longer. If the site didn't compensate for any lag, fast time controls would be effectively impossible. 

 

Moves always take time to transmit and once a move is made on a client, that time shouldn't all be counted against the opponent's clock.

 

Premoves completely exaggerate the issue in that video.

Oh, so chess.com is perfectly functional for anyone who doesn't use premoves and plays long time controls?

So everyone under 1000?

To be fair, that's quite a lot of people, but still, that's a fairly comical dismissal.

llama47
Martin_Stahl wrote:

but you can't get around the physics of packet transmission times.

 "Theoretically, latency of a packet going on a round trip across the world is 133ms."

llama47

In other words it's not physics you're up against.

Elbow_Jobertski
llama47 wrote:
hat video.

Oh, so chess.com is perfectly functional for anyone who doesn't use premoves and plays long time controls?

So everyone under 1000?

To be fair, that's quite a lot of people, but still, that's a fairly comical dismissal.

 It is perfectly functional. People use it all the time. 

Even in this thread nobody is saying that somehow it makes the game unplayable, just that it takes longer and there are paranoid people that see their opponent's time go up when the client re-syncs so they assume they are being hacked. Which is apparently how this thread started. 

Besides, 133ms is .13s which would be .26 seconds per move. So two guys spamming premoves could make a 30s game last an extra 80 seconds at that speed. That is without any internal processing, etc. 

llama47
Elbow_Jobertski wrote:
llama47 wrote:
hat video.

Oh, so chess.com is perfectly functional for anyone who doesn't use premoves and plays long time controls?

So everyone under 1000?

To be fair, that's quite a lot of people, but still, that's a fairly comical dismissal.

 It is perfectly functional. People use it all the time. 

Even in this thread nobody is saying that somehow it makes the game unplayable, just that it takes longer and there are paranoid people that see their opponent's time go up when the client re-syncs so they assume they are being hacked. Which is apparently how this thread started. 

Besides, 133ms is .13s which would be .26 seconds per move. So two guys spamming premoves could make a 30s game last an extra 80 seconds at that speed. That is without any internal processing, etc. 

A 30 second game that operates at blitz speed is, by definition, not functional as a bullet game.

And if the lag were 133 ms then it would not be possible for humans to make consecutive premoves, so your example of a 300 move game is silly.

Elbow_Jobertski
llama47 wrote:

And if the lag were 133 ms then it would not be possible for humans to make consecutive premoves, so your example of a 600 move game is silly.

A premove  is always .1s regardless of lag. There is a whole thing about that on this site

So that is 300 moves each which is 600 total moves with .133 seconds each. Which is about 80s. 

Again, at close to theoretical speed with no processing time or a non-optimal connection. 

In a game I should never see my clock gain or lose lag time because my clock is accurate as to my thinking time. It starts when I get the move and stops when I move.  I see my opponent's clock climb because some of the time passing on my end is not him moving but actually the lag time where he is still is getting the information. He most likely sees my time increase because of the same reason. 

Which has little or no effect on the actual game besides the total running time. I get the full clock time to think and move. So does he. It just looks to me like he is moving slower than he really is and it looks to him that I'm moving slower. 

A third party watching the game, like in the youtube clip, will see both clocks go up to correct the lag. 

So the effect is that we have some extra time to think when our clock isn't moving. Which affects the game but isn't breaking it.  

sfxe

lag

you'll see this no matter what site you go to, unless that site doesn't support premoves

 

llama47
Elbow_Jobertski wrote:
llama47 wrote:

And if the lag were 133 ms then it would not be possible for humans to make consecutive premoves, so your example of a 600 move game is silly.

A premove  is always .1s regardless of lag. There is a whole thing about that on this site

So that is 300 moves each which is 600 total moves with .133 seconds each. Which is about 80s. 

Again, at close to theoretical speed with no processing time or a non-optimal connection. 

In a game I should never see my clock gain or lose lag time because my clock is accurate as to my thinking time. It starts when I get the move and stops when I move.  I see my opponent's clock climb because some of the time passing on my end is not him moving but actually the lag time where he is still is getting the information. He most likely sees my time increase because of the same reason. 

Which has little or no effect on the actual game besides the total running time. I get the full clock time to think and move. So does he. It just looks to me like he is moving slower than he really is and it looks to him that I'm moving slower. 

A third party watching the game, like in the youtube clip, will see both clocks go up to correct the lag. 

So the effect is that we have some extra time to think when our clock isn't moving. Which affects the game but isn't breaking it.  

I know how it works. I never said it's unfair to one player.