HOU YIFAN WASNT RIGHT, She should apologize.

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bbeltkyle89
zac_howland wrote:
bbeltkyle89 wrote: 

1. "tournament director should step in"....no not if they just used the pairings the computer gave them. This whole argument is about the organizers "manipulating" the pairings. You are suggesting that because the pairings came out "strange", they should manipulate the pairings so that people dont suspect they are manipulating the pairings? No, thats not how this works.....

2. "The frustration for her comes from the fact that being paired with only women for 7 consecutive rounds means she is playing all lower rated opponents"......this is how pairings work, the top half plays the bottom half until the cream rises to the top. so if anything, this is more evidence that she is more likely to play women. After each round, rating plays little and little with the pairings, as the stacking of tournament points speaks more.

3. "(thus opening doors to things like the World Chess Tour)".....shes was invited to Tata in 2015 and 2016 and under preformed...coming in tied for last last year.  BTW, not sure what you mean by World Chess tour...do you mean the Grand Chess Tour? Also, if anything, accusing your organizers of manipulating pairings without proof is not a good start in opening the doors to anything

 

1.  When using the computer pairings, you can sometimes end up with odd choices for pairings.  That is why the TD has the responsibility to adjust the pairings.  When they do it, they typically provide a reason for it (an easy one in her case).

 

2.  I think you are confusing things.  I did not claim that the pairings had to do with ratings, but that her frustration of being matched against 8 women in 10 rounds meant that she was almost always playing lower rated players (in fact, the only player she played the entire tournament that had a higher rating than her own was Michael Adams - 1 of her 2 losses prior to throwing the last round).

 

3.  I agree it is not a good strategy - hence my comment about maturity.

in regards to her being "frusterated" about playing lower rated players...tough luck, deal with it....maybe if she won she would play stronger players

Ironically, had she beat Michael Adams, she could have been paired with Wenjun Ju *gasp a lower rated women!!!

RubenHogenhout
Sanju_1996d schreef:

If you've played in swiss events, you will know organisers do rig with the pairings for whatever reason they may have. it could be that they want to halt someone's progress, may have been bribed by someone, could be doing it because they can or maybe they hate that person and don't want him to win prize! I've faced it! and many others users will agree with me too.

 

Or what i experiened only ones. A member of the organisers club got in the last round with more points then me after the for last round was lost by me against this player. He got a far more weaker opponent in the last round and I got with less pionts a far more stronger player. I dont know but it felt not fair at that moment. I don t know if is was on purpose but then it felt this way. And so I was not able to win the last round to upgrade my score because I got my third IM.

 

RubenHogenhout

Nobody knows how many woman played in this tournement and how many man?

I mean when for example there are 20 woman and 50 men you are a woman and you get from 9 opponents 7 woman this is possible. But if say there played 200 man and only 15 woman and then you get 7 of 9 woman I don t believe it.

BronsteinPawn

Lol, I hope Yifan rottens in prision!

BronsteinPawn

Yifan got destroyed by Wen Ju, who is a cool girl, friendly and not stupid.

bbeltkyle89
zac_howland wrote:
bbeltkyle89 wrote:
zac_howland wrote:
bbeltkyle89 wrote: 

1. "tournament director should step in"....no not if they just used the pairings the computer gave them. This whole argument is about the organizers "manipulating" the pairings. You are suggesting that because the pairings came out "strange", they should manipulate the pairings so that people dont suspect they are manipulating the pairings? No, thats not how this works.....

2. "The frustration for her comes from the fact that being paired with only women for 7 consecutive rounds means she is playing all lower rated opponents"......this is how pairings work, the top half plays the bottom half until the cream rises to the top. so if anything, this is more evidence that she is more likely to play women. After each round, rating plays little and little with the pairings, as the stacking of tournament points speaks more.

3. "(thus opening doors to things like the World Chess Tour)".....shes was invited to Tata in 2015 and 2016 and under preformed...coming in tied for last last year.  BTW, not sure what you mean by World Chess tour...do you mean the Grand Chess Tour? Also, if anything, accusing your organizers of manipulating pairings without proof is not a good start in opening the doors to anything

 

1.  When using the computer pairings, you can sometimes end up with odd choices for pairings.  That is why the TD has the responsibility to adjust the pairings.  When they do it, they typically provide a reason for it (an easy one in her case).

 

2.  I think you are confusing things.  I did not claim that the pairings had to do with ratings, but that her frustration of being matched against 8 women in 10 rounds meant that she was almost always playing lower rated players (in fact, the only player she played the entire tournament that had a higher rating than her own was Michael Adams - 1 of her 2 losses prior to throwing the last round).

 

3.  I agree it is not a good strategy - hence my comment about maturity.

in regards to her being "frusterated" about playing lower rated players...tough luck, deal with it....maybe if she won she would play stronger players

Ironically, had she beat Michael Adams, she could have been paired with Wenjun Ju *gasp a lower rated women!!!

 

Obviously you did not actually pay attention to the tournament.  Hou was 5-1-2 against 8 women.  The only woman she lost to was ... Ju (whom she faced after Micky).  With a score of 6.0/10 (despite throwing the last game), you can hardly say she did not perform well.  In fact, if she had taken her last game seriously and won it, she would have gained ~10 rating points from the whole tournament (hint:  you do not gain rating points for doing poorly).

Right, and if all those women she played were men, it would be the same thing!! there are men rated less than her too. And i did pay attention to the tournament, i was being facetious...by noting that even if she had played perfectly the first couple rounds, she still would have played Ju (albeit earlier) and Ju would still be a "lower rated women player".....like...what did she expect? that she'd be paired with Naka or MVL in round 2?

cnj513

 - Consider a sample of 100 players made up of 80 dogs and 20 cats. Your pairings software outputs pairings that are X ratings points apart, beginning at position Y.

 - Now, THE TOURNAMENT DIRECTOR examines the ratings and sees that most of the cats are positioned in the 20-30 percentile and the 50-60 percentile.

 - If the tournament director doesn't like cats, all he has to do is set X=30 and Y=20... AND ONE HALF OF THE CATS KNOCK OUT THE OTHER HALF OF THE CATS IN THE FIRST ROUND thus greatly diminishing the unimaginable horror that the champion might be a cat.

ArgoNavis

The pairings were chosen randomly

Get over it.

cnj513
kingofshedinjas wrote:

The pairings were chosen randomly

Get over it.

 

The one thing I am absolutely certain of, and EVERYONE KNOWLEDGEABLE agrees upon, is that the pairings WERE NOT CHOSEN RANDOMLY... but thanks for your input.

RubenHogenhout
cnj513 schreef:
kingofshedinjas wrote:

The pairings were chosen randomly

Get over it.

 

The one thing I am absolutely certain of, and EVERYONE KNOWLEDGEABLE agrees upon, is that the pairings WERE NOT CHOSEN RANDOMLY... but thanks for your input.

 

I agree with you. It was not Randomly it was rigged as hell by man that see woman as lesser beings. Man that want woman to play only against other woman separated of the man. It was a sexistic thing for sure. I support Hou. Good protest.

 

bbeltkyle89
cnj513 wrote:
kingofshedinjas wrote:

The pairings were chosen randomly

Get over it.

 

The one thing I am absolutely certain of, and EVERYONE KNOWLEDGEABLE agrees upon, is that the pairings WERE NOT CHOSEN RANDOMLY... but thanks for your input.

You really think there is a conspiracy against Yifan here? What do the organizers have to gain? They have marketed themselves as being a tournament that is good for females to play in, its part of their brand....im sure they would love it if a female won it

Obviously if they do have an incentive we wont know for sure, but do you have any speculation as to why they might manipulate the pairings?

05zerofive
BronsteinPawn wrote:

A random internet sissy blocked me because I disagreed with his points, so I will refute his whole thread in this thread.

Could you show the link where is this "whole thread" you are referring to?

Thanks.

05zerofive

From the title

HOU YIFAN WASNT RIGHT, She should apologize

this is wrong.

Hou is correct and the organizer should improve their pairing system.

ArgoNavis
cnj513 wrote:
kingofshedinjas wrote:

The pairings were chosen randomly

Get over it.

 

The one thing I am absolutely certain of, and EVERYONE KNOWLEDGEABLE agrees upon, is that the pairings WERE NOT CHOSEN RANDOMLY... but thanks for your input.

Your post can be understood in two different ways:

1) Smartass who wants to make clear that computer only generate pseudo-random numbers.

2) Booo...conspiracy!

 

Get over it.

05zerofive
uscftigerprowl wrote:

If you go to http://www.vegachess.com/tl/index.php/Home_page_English.html you will see that you can manipulate the pairings with FIDE regulated software.

That tournament was run by swiss manager.

http://swiss-manager.at/

ChessNashOne
kingofshedinjas wrote:
cnj513 wrote:
kingofshedinjas wrote:

The pairings were chosen randomly

Get over it.

 

The one thing I am absolutely certain of, and EVERYONE KNOWLEDGEABLE agrees upon, is that the pairings WERE NOT CHOSEN RANDOMLY... but thanks for your input.

Your post can be understood in two different ways:

1) Smartass who wants to make clear that computer only generate pseudo-random numbers.

2) Booo...conspiracy!

 

Get over it.

 

Swiss Tournament Match Pairings do not involve random numbers at all. Within the FIDE regulations there are rules on how the players are to be matched and no random generator is involved at all.

 

Here is the link so you can see for yourself: https://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=18&view=category

 

Therefore any meddling with the pairings can be proven. Just pair the players according the rules and look if these were the actual pairings played. This is why the protest of Yifan and anecdotal claims of cheat pairings in Swiss Tournaments are ludicrous since any wrong pairing is easily provable.

 

05zerofive
ChessNashOne wrote:This is why the protest of Yifan and anecdotal claims of cheat pairings in Swiss Tournaments are ludicrous since any wrong pairing is easily provable.

It was not ludicrous. There was indeed something wrong in the pairing.

SilentKnighte5
05zerofive wrote:
ChessNashOne wrote:This is why the protest of Yifan and anecdotal claims of cheat pairings in Swiss Tournaments are ludicrous since any wrong pairing is easily provable.

It was not ludicrous. There was indeed something wrong in the pairing.

Feel free to show what the pairings were supposed to be using the FIDE regulations.

BronsteinPawn
cnj513 escribió:
kingofshedinjas wrote:

The pairings were chosen randomly

Get over it.

 

The one thing I am absolutely certain of, and EVERYONE KNOWLEDGEABLE agrees upon, is that the pairings WERE NOT CHOSEN RANDOMLY... but thanks for your input.

Then give us a proof or just go to sleep dude.

I dont have a problem with Yifan investigating, I have a problem with Yifan and people like you acussing TDs without any proof.

Sure the odds of getting pairings like that are very low but it doesnt mean it can't happen, which is your main argument to say the pairings were rigged.

BronsteinPawn
zac_howland escribió:
bbeltkyle89 wrote:

Right, and if all those women she played were men, it would be the same thing!! there are men rated less than her too. And i did pay attention to the tournament, i was being facetious...by noting that even if she had played perfectly the first couple rounds, she still would have played Ju (albeit earlier) and Ju would still be a "lower rated women player".....like...what did she expect? that she'd be paired with Naka or MVL in round 2?

 

When you are trying to increase your rating to the 2700 mark so you can compete in more of the top open tournaments, but you get paired with people who are 100-200 points below you for 8 of 10 rounds, it can be frustrating.  Especially when you consider that in some rounds she had the same score as MVL and Fabiano.  Does it justify her actions?  No - but at least her frustration is understandable.  And as I've already stated, I think she has some maturing to do.  She is a few years younger than Ju, so hopefully in the next few years she will carry herself better.  With that said, we also have a world champion who threw a tantrum after losing a game, so perhaps we should expect less from these young players? 

She lost against some women, Yifan is still weak.