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How can I mate with two knights and my king?

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MARattigan
drmrboss wrote:
MARattigan wrote:
drmrboss wrote:

Statistics says, out of 3,100,000 possible positions, 

184 positions are won by KNN vs K.

 


But if you work it out yourself on the back of an envelope you should find that on a standard board alone there are 736 positions won by KNN vs K (616 if you exclude positions that are already mate).

There are lies, damn lies etc.

 

Statistics never lies. Wrong statistics are due to wrong observer. How did you get 736? I saw 184 on syzgy.

So did I. It's wrong. Count them.

MARattigan
Togishere wrote:
MARattigan wrote:
Lord_Hammer wrote:

You cannot force a mate with two knights but a mate is possible. These are help mates. But chess.com doesn’t factor in helpmates, so if you have 2 knights, it will be a draw. 

 A  bit inaccurate even if you omit OP's e0 square.

In the position shown here White has 2 knights but it's neither a draw nor a helpmate.

 

and this is a helpmate which chess.com appears to "factor in" (if that means awarding the point).

 

In both final positions White has two knights but it's not a draw. And neither is this

White to play and win

not to mention this

White to play and not win

 

That position is impossible though, think about it, before this position, on black's move, what could he have played? Nothing.

Look again. They're all legal.

Chessflyfisher
Lord_Hammer wrote:

You cannot force a mate with two knights but a mate is possible. These are help mates. But chess.com doesn’t factor in helpmates, so if you have 2 knights, it will be a draw. 

Good simple answer!

QuantumYankee
Chessflyfisher wrote:
Lord_Hammer wrote:

You cannot force a mate with two knights but a mate is possible. These are help mates. But chess.com doesn’t factor in helpmates, so if you have 2 knights, it will be a draw. 

Good simple answer!

Yes nice job Lord hammer that was a good answer.

QuantumYankee
1e41-0 wrote:

Even forcing the white king to the vicinity of e0 from an unfavorable starting position would take about 40 moves.

Where is E0????

MARattigan
Chessflyfisher wrote:
Lord_Hammer wrote:

You cannot force a mate with two knights but a mate is possible. These are help mates. But chess.com doesn’t factor in helpmates, so if you have 2 knights, it will be a draw. 

Good simple answer!

But, unfortunately, not to the question.

MARattigan
QuantumYankee wrote:
1e41-0 wrote:

Even forcing the white king to the vicinity of e0 from an unfavorable starting position would take about 40 moves.

Where is E0????

If you look at OP's post #3, he's drawn it for you.

LopsidedLamp

In this position, it's white's turn.

White moves his knight on c4 to b6, giving checkmate. The king is in check, and he can't move to b8 because of white's knight on c6, and he can't move to a7 or b7 because of white's king, so it's checkmate.

MARattigan
LopsidedLamp wrote:

In this position, it's white's turn.

White moves his knight on c4 to b6, giving checkmate. The king is in check, and he can't move to b8 because of white's knight on c6, and he can't move to a7 or b7 because of white's king, so it's checkmate.

This is true. In fact OP's statement, "It is known that an extra piece is required to be able to mate Black" (referring to a standard board) is strictly false because of such positions. It should read, "It is known that an extra piece is required for White to force mate".  Conventionally (and probably not particularly helpfully) a sequence of moves leading to mate is regarded as forced only if it consists of more than one ply. 

MARattigan
1e41-0 wrote:

Even forcing the white king to the vicinity of e0 from an unfavorable starting position would take about 40 moves.

But wouldn't that be just taking the horses to water? Can you think of  a KNNK position that is mate in more than 4?

And, of course, some positions are too unfavourable. The white king cannot be forced within three moves of  e0 here, whoever has the move.