HOW DO I LEARN BISHOP AND KNIGHT CHECKMATE

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rooperi

And for players who think they will figure this out OTB, if you are the same level or weaker than GM Epishin, be very worried :)

shepi13

The only way black can make it harder is by playing the active defense, which I showed in an earlier post. Also, 9...Kd1 runs into Ne3+, which is important.

rooperi

shepi, we are diverging on move 3 for Black 3...Kd1. I believe that is a more practical try than Kf1, definitely makes White's task more complicated.

msjenned
aww-rats wrote:
fianchetto123 wrote:

Thank you for devoting some time to helping me with this sir

Your welcome. Seems you have several correct solutions now. I have a bunch of elementary mates on my website, on my Chess4Kids page, but hadn't done this one yet:

http://aww-rats.webs.com/chess4kids.htm

 

So, I made a video on another chess server, so they match. People say my videos are entertaining, I hope I don't disappoint. I have seen this ending come up 4 times in tournament play, and the defender, a master, scored 3 draws and a loss! (I was the master twice and got 2 draws). Who lost? A famous future GM to a famous future IM.

 

Good video thank you.

Coach-Bill
Estragon wrote:

It IS a waste of time to learn this for endings, because it so rarely occurs you will be better off learning more about Rook or pure Pawn endings.  BUT it is an excellent exercise for training, visualisation, piece coordination, forming "nets" to restrict the King, etc. 

It is not a waste of time to learn this. As noted in my video I drew the inferior side twice, against a player about 1900 and 2180 who had already been, and still is, a master! They would have loved to have a NM scalp instead of being embarrassed!

Aletool

I never get that end in my life,I see it a couple a times in same tournaments and ended in a draw because player don't know how to make the mate.One of them was a  master and I don't want be in that position

I think is worth to study this end ,even is very rarely to happen,can happen same time and can be a huge difference 1/2 a point,maybe a tournament win,.You can use the technique during the game  and study this endgame will help you to use your pieces better.

parallaxx

It´s true that this hardly ever comes up. I think that the main advantage of knowing the technique in your sleep is that if you´re maybe playing an endgame with say B+N+P against 2 connected and fairly advanced pawns, you can give up your pawn, knock off the remaining black P and be confident that you can mate fairly quickly.  Trying to hold onto your single pawn could take more calculation and time, maybe also with more potential for mistakes. I´m not sure; it´s just nice to have the technique up your sleeve.

ponz111

This situation almost never comes up. I would forget about learning this endgame as there are 1000 things you need to know which will better help you to progress in chess.

After you learn these 1000 things and that ending does  come up--you will have enough skill to win it even though you have not studied it. 

Dutchday

Not that hard if you try it.

You start out with a loose cage of a central bishop and a knight to the right, with one square in between. (Note the barbwire defense of Chéron, but it doesn't need to be exactly like that.) Advance the king and lock the enemy up at the edge. If you play it well, you should see there is no reason to ever let the opponent leave the edge now, at least not for a long time.

Start driving the king sideways to the corner of your bishop's colour. In the end you may have to make a few waiting moves or tempo moves. Just shuffle the bishop back without changing the position... Then for example, check with the knight and mate with the bishop in the corner. You can also do a discovered attack if you think that is more funny.

These are loosely 3 stages.. the cornering, moving sideways and the mating. Try to see where you are stuck if anywhere. 

Vyomo

What I think is harder is two knights and bishop vs rook and two connected passers

This should be a draw, but I managed to get a win with white.

rooperi

Cons:

  • it almost never comes up

Pros:

  • You can learn it in one session
  • The value of learning this goes far beyond the ability to mate with bishop and knight, it's a great lesson in how these pieces co-operate
  • It's a really cool party trick, if you know this you are very likely the only person at your club who can beat everybody with the superior side, and draw everybody with the losing side with 5 minutes on the clock
  • If it ever does come up, you wont look like an idiot. And, respectfully disagreeing with ponz, I would like to point out again that GM Epishin failed to convert this. I bet he knows how to do it now :)
NimzoRoy

http://www.chess.com/computer-workout/server/bishop--knight-mate-the-edge

Escapest_Pawn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjW5Naq7iVw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWZ7h2yrJME&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur3mVl0bdog&feature=related

Everyone seems to have a slightly different way of looking at this.  I like the last two, and try "drilling" with your positions on a tablebase.

http://www.k4it.de/index.php?topic=egtb&lang=en

stephen_33

There's some very good information on Wikipedia - that's where I learned the technique (see Delatang's Triangles & the 'W Method').

Rooperi is right to say it hardly ever crops up - statistically, roughly once in every 5000 games !  But that doesn't mean it's not worth studying because it helps you understand how to use a bishop & knight pair to build walls through which your opponent's king can't pass.

Somewhat easier is K & two Bishops vs K - once you can solve that one easily  in less than 20 moves from (almost) any starting position, graduate on to K+B+N vs K.

Beachdude67

Go get the definitive book on endgames, Fine's Chess Endings. Not only does Rueben Fine demonstrate that particular mate, he has a 3 knight mate in his book.

Most of the book is dedicated to rook endgames, which is incredibly practical. I guess bishop and knight mates are OK, but the time you're taking on that could be better spent on RvR+P or whatever.

LazyChessPlayer3201

You looking for a difficult pawnless endgame 

jwhitesj

watch the video by eliot liu on how to do the bishop knight checkmate and than practice against the computer workout.

Musikamole
aww-rats wrote:
fianchetto123 wrote:

Thank you for devoting some time to helping me with this sir

Your welcome. Seems you have several correct solutions now. I have a bunch of elementary mates on my website, on my Chess4Kids page, but hadn't done this one yet:

http://aww-rats.webs.com/chess4kids.htm

 

So, I made a video on another chess server, so they match. People say my videos are entertaining, I hope I don't disappoint. I have seen this ending come up 4 times in tournament play, and the defender, a master, scored 3 draws and a loss! (I was the master twice and got 2 draws). Who lost? A famous future GM to a famous future IM.

 

That was a pleasure to watch. The prime position. Cool stuff!

jambyvedar

I think Bruce Pandolfini has good explanation with this mate.

marknatm

the concept is to coordinate the 3 pieces so that the board is compressed into 3 increasingly smaller triangles. trap the king in the first, then the the second, then the third and then mate follows. if the opponent escapes a triangle you have to start all over again