How Do You Stop Hanging Pieces?

Sort:
ivandh

I don't hang pieces, I give them the chair

AtahanT

I've noticed that hanging peices is mostly not a matter of not actually being able to calculate the combination in front of you, it is more about you ignoring your opponents last move. ALWAYS LOOK what your opponents move threatens (look for multiple threats, queens can fork nasty across the board) after EVERY move he makes. That will take care of the majority of your hanging pieces. It also helps to play more solid openings where pieces are less prone to be hanging because your piece placement in the opening is compact and solid. This however mostly means that you need to be strategically better then your opponent to beat him since there are less tactics involved.

Conflagration_Planet

If I knew that, I would stop hanging pieces.

Musikamole
BlueKnightShade wrote:
Musikamole wrote:
... snipped ...

I have the time control set to 10 minutes and will try 15 minutes in my next set of games. Will having more time to think help?


It will certainly give you some more time before you move.

Here is an advice: Keep your hand away from the mouse so that you don't just move before thinking. So whenever you have made a move take the hand away from the mouse while looking at the position.

For this purpose I guess that a time control of15 minutes is better than 10 minutes. You could even sit on your hand or just hold your hand with the other hand.


 That is absolutely brilliant. It is what I do when solving tactics problems. I take my hand off of the mouse and examine ALL 64 squares.

I will take my hand off of the mouse and look at more squares. Thank you!

orangehonda

I think Tonydal had the right idea.  Instead of focusing on how do I not do something, try to turn it into something you can do, something you can practice.

In this case it's how can you make blunder checking a habit / second nature.  Well, of course it takes practice, but you have to change the status-quo.  Right now when you play a game, you get into your usual mindset, you have to step outside your comfort zone / what you're used to and force something different.  Over time and with practice it becomes natural.

This is why facing strong opponents helps, out of frustration you'll re-think your current M.O. and start practicing blunder checks.

Other than that there have to be some exercises you can do -- I don't know of any specifically but could think some up.  You can try playing an analysis game against yourself where you don't allow any blunders (if you play a blunder, you have to take it back).  Eventually you realize you're never going to trick yourself and so you don't hang pieces or try silly attacks.  Take a long time each move in these games, try to play no gross blunderers and not have to take back any moves.

Anything that makes you work hard on blunder checking, identifying loose or attacked pieces.  Of course you can continue your 10 or 15 minute games, but don't let yourself get comfortable, you have to work hard on a new way of thinking.  If you only blunder check 95% of your moves, you'll be hanging a knight every other game, consistency is a big deal in chess... practice practice practice.  After a month or two it will come easier and easier.

Musikamole
hicetnunc wrote:

Paying attention is probably a good start...

Playing slower games could help. I can't play properly at 15-min time control, though I'm rated above 2000 OTB and have learned the rules early.

I would recommend you play 25'+10" or 30'+5" time-controls.


 Wow! Does anyone at chess.com sit and play a very long live game set to  25'+10" or 30'+5" game? That would feel like an OTB game, and be a blast.

Musikamole
JG27Pyth wrote:

How NOT to improve at Chess forever: Play lots of Blitz against exclusively weak opponents. 

You've played 500 games against opponents your own strength -- you probably feel like you are stagnating and you probably are.

You are playing them at 50-50 won loss. Yet you say you hang pieces 95% of the time.

IOWs you are winning games even when you hang pieces because your opponents play sloppy too... nothing is going to change.

The way to stop hanging pieces in one move is to regularly play people who snaffle up your pieces relentlessly when you hang two and three move combinations and who gift you nothing. You'll learn to look for trouble, and you'll start beating the guys who gift you things 95% of the time instead of 50% of the time. The pitfall of getting bullied repeatedly by strong opponents is that you become excessively defensive, cautious, and passive... but why worry now about a problem you don't have.


I set the rating of my opponent to 75 points below and 25-50 points above. That seems to be the sweet spot, where the game is competitive. Tons of pieces are hung, and many tactics are missed when looking over engine analysis.

If you think it would help for me to play someone stronger greater than 50 points higher, then I will give it a try, working harder to play smarter.

I'm almost at 900. What do people here suggest I set the rating of my opponent to, i.e. +/- 100, +/- 200, etc. Would someone 200 points higher than me even want to accept my challenge? Wouldn't the 1100 rated player find it dull and boring to play against me?

orangehonda
Musikamole wrote:

 Wouldn't the 1100 rated player find it dull and boring to play against me?


No, I don't think so.  I've seen some games of 800-1200 players and can't really tell any difference other than the frequency of hanging pieces.  Your knowledge and ability would be about equal really, it's just that a player 200 points above you will catch more of your blunders and make few of his own.

edit -- of course the 1.h4 2.a4 guys are a big difference... I mean among those who know the basics ;)

Vandarringa

I have to say the most important thing is to develop a habit of double-checking your chosen move before making it.  At tournaments, writing moves down before you make the move provides a nice reminder for a blunder check.  Online, you might make a similar habit, whether it's taking a sip of your drink or talking to yourself out loud.  The main thing is to discipline your thought process so that blunder-checking is just a natural part of what you do when you play.  This won't come naturally through experience, you have to remain disciplined about it. 

1) Choose your move; 2) look for captures, checks, and piece threats that the move allows; 3) make the move.  Sometimes I still go 1, 3, 2; which is always scary, and sometimes deadly.  Just train your mind to go 1, 2, 3 instead.

Musikamole
paul211 wrote:

We have conversed previously and I tried to give you some help.

In this case where you hang pieces I would like you to post 2 to 3 games here or just a link to 2 to 3 games where you hang pieces to see what better move was available.

In general hung pieces are pieces moved forward without any protection and have no retreat as the next move by your opponent a check for instance will leave without any resources to save the pieces.

What is more important to me to try to help you out is when and at what approximate move do you let pieces hang out, is it in the opening or the middle game? This is why I would need some games to try to see what you could have done differently. 


 I get in trouble during the opening when there are many pawns and pieces in the center and  I can't make sense of the clutter, thus hanging a pawn or piece in the exchange. I'm going to throw a ton of cluttered positions on the chessboard and practice counting - takes, takes, takes...and see if that helps.

Discovered attacks, long range attacks and knights are all problems. I'd be very happy to remove both of my opponent's knights. Knights are still difficult for me to follow, knowing what squares they attack. I stare at those pieces more than any others on the board, as the moves are more complex - and they can hop!

Here are my two most recent live games played last night at 10 minutes Blitz each. Even though I won both, I blundered in both. I didn't deserve to win in the first. My play was terrible and I still won after eight blunders!  

Game 1

Chess.com analysis

Inaccuracies(?!): 1 = 3.8% of moves 

 Mistakes(?): 7 = 26.9% of moves 

Blunders(??): 8 = 30.8% of moves

I struggle with knowing when to advance center pawns without hanging pieces (clutter in the center of the board). 8.e4 was a terrible move, and my opponent missed an opportunity to win my bishop.


 

 


Game Two - This is about as accurate as I can play in Live Chess.

Inaccuracies(?!): 4 = 16.0% of moves

Mistakes(?): 7 = 28.0% of moves 

Blunders(??): 1 = 4.0% of moves

 

ChessNetwork

When you make a move, survey the board to determine if any of your opponents' pieces can capture the piece you just moved. (You can literally go from piece to piece & while this may take some time, your speed will increase with such an approach).

When your opponent makes a move, what question do you ask of yourself?

Here is the question that I essentially ask of myself..."What's the threat?(What new squares is this moved piece now controlling that it wasn't before?)"

Hope this helps...

Jerry

Musikamole
ChessNetwork wrote:

When you make a move, survey the board to determine if any of your opponents' pieces can capture the piece you just moved. (You can literally go from piece to piece & while this may take some time, your speed will increase with such an approach).

When your opponent makes a move, what question do you ask of yourself?

Here is the question that I essentially ask of myself..."What's the threat?(What new squares is this moved piece now controlling that it wasn't before?)"

Hope this helps...

Jerry


Thanks Jerry. Your videos are awesome. Thanks for the hard work! Smile

I really need to ask myself if the move I am about to make is safe, ALL OF THE TIME. This falls under the category of mental discipline.

One of my current struggles is with the "dogpile" in the center of the board. After the exchange, will I hang a piece. In blitz, there just isn't that much time to count how many times a square is attacked by both sides.

How do the more experienced players know when a move is safe in the middle of a "dogpile" of pawns and pieces? Is it pattern memory, and not counting attackers?

I see guys play one minute bullet games with cluttered boards and not hang pieces! What are they doing? Do they have computers inside their heads?

A simple example of this "dogpile" where I advance a pawn, only to find out later that I lose the exchange.


 

blake78613

Hanging pieces comes from analyzing the board deeply and thinking several moves ahead.  Petrosian left his queen hanging more than once in his career.

After you have done your analyzing and before you make your move, change your mindset to that of a beginner and look at the board for obvious captures.

orangehonda
Musikamole wrote:

One of my current struggles is with the "dogpile" in the center of the board. After the exchange, will I hang a piece. In blitz, there just isn't that much time to count how many times a square is attacked by both sides.

How do the more experienced players know when a move is safe in the middle of a "dogpile" of pawns and pieces? Is it pattern memory, and not counting attackers?

I see guys play one minute bullet games with cluttered boards and not hang pieces! What are they doing? Do they have computers inside their heads?



If I can throw out an answer :)...  I actually never learned (or thought of on my own) to count attackers and defenders.  When I did think of it years later, it confused my thinking more than anything, so I never even tried it.  I would just calculate all "dog pile" situations... at first very slowly and more than once (and maybe still get it wrong heh).  If counting makes sense for your way of thinking though, more power to you.

In bullet, for me, there's just sort of a running tab on how many attackers and defenders are on certain points of interest.  Without thinking about it I know when I have to add a defender or subtract an attacker (say through a pin, or exchange).  Not for every square of course, just the squares both sides have been building on for a while... the obvious ones.

chessroboto

Lose more games. You'll figure it out after a while. Tongue out

orangehonda

I've likely lost over 10,000 games... who can beat that Foot in mouth

Musikamole
orangehonda wrote:
Musikamole wrote:

One of my current struggles is with the "dog pile" in the center of the board.

After the exchange, will I hang a piece?

 



If I can throw out an answer :)...  I actually never learned (or thought of on my own) to count attackers and defenders.  When I did think of it years later, it confused my thinking more than anything, so I never even tried it.  I would just calculate all "dog pile" situations... at first very slowly and more than once (and maybe still get it wrong heh).  If counting makes sense for your way of thinking though, more power to you.

In bullet, for me, there's just sort of a running tab on how many attackers and defenders are on certain points of interest. 

The running bar tab. Smile

Without thinking about it I know when I have to add a defender or subtract an attacker (say through a pin, or exchange).  Not for every square of course, just the squares both sides have been building on for a while... the obvious ones.


 A good read. Thanks. Smile

What is the difference between counting (what I try to do) and calculating (what you do)?  They sound similar.

Is this calculating? If I take, he takes. I take, he forks! Ouch!! Laughing

orangehonda
Musikamole wrote:
orangehonda wrote:
If I can throw out an answer :)...  I actually never learned (or thought of on my own) to count attackers and defenders.  When I did think of it years later, it confused my thinking more than anything, so I never even tried it.  I would just calculate all "dog pile" situations... at first very slowly and more than once (and maybe still get it wrong heh).  If counting makes sense for your way of thinking though, more power to you.

In bullet, for me, there's just sort of a running tab on how many attackers and defenders are on certain points of interest. 

The running bar tab.

Without thinking about it I know when I have to add a defender or subtract an attacker (say through a pin, or exchange).  Not for every square of course, just the squares both sides have been building on for a while... the obvious ones.


 A good read. Thanks.

What is the difference between counting (what I try to do) and calculating (what you do)?  They sound similar.

Is this calculating? If I take, he takes. I take, he forks! Ouch!!


I've seen people count (or say after a game they lost count).  They may even say out loud at the club "oh you have 3 attackers, I have only 2 defenders here"

One reason counting confuses me (besides the unaccounted possibility for in between moves) is you may have 5 attackers, but if they're all pieces and I have 2 pawns defending, my side is safe.  Or lets say you have 4 attackers, a pawn, a queen and two rooks able to capture only in that order.  All I need is a pawn and a knight to defend unless you want to sac your queen :).

Yeah I just do the "he takes, I take, he takes" thing.  I call that calculating.

skogli
Musikamole wrote:

My Live Chess rating would be 200-400 points higher if I stopped hanging pawns and pieces. What's the trick, besides paying attention?

Seriously, this is my absolute greatest weakness in live chess right now, and yes, I do practice tactics daily. I'm stumped. Help!

I have the time control set to 10 minutes and will try 15 minutes in my next set of games. Will having more time to think help?


 After each move from you opponent think: "what is the move doing, what is the concequences?"

I'll show it with a diagram:

Another one:

If you don't have time enough to think like this, play with longer timelimits.

You don't make blunders if you think on what your move is actually doing, before you make the move.

VLaurenT
<snip>

A simple example of this "dogpile" where I advance a pawn, only to find out later that I lose the exchange.


 


This is basic counting : Black controls the square 3 times - you control it twice => it's not safe to move a pawn there.

It takes a couple of seconds at most to check this, even less if you keep track of what your opponent is doing in the previous moves ("Bc5 - controls d4", "Nc6 - controls d4", etc...)