how to progess past 1200

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IMKeto
jahlone wrote:

You all have overloaded me lol. I think I'm more confused now lol. 

Thats generally what happens when you ask for help here.

hikarunaku
jahlone wrote:

You all have overloaded me lol. I think I'm more confused now lol. 

Thanks to kindaspongey

kindaspongey
IMBacon wrote (~5 hours ago):
jahlone wrote:

You all have overloaded me lol. I think I'm more confused now lol. 

Thats generally what happens when you ask for help here.

"To the OP: You have received a mixed bag of advice,some of it contradictory, from several people with different ideas about how the game is best studied. In the end you have to trust your judgement and make your own decisions (and isn't that a lot like playing chess!)." - SchaakVoorAlles (~15 hours ago)

For that purpose, it might be helpful to look at available online resources such as reviews and samples.

Rehcsif_Ybbob

Someone teaching you is the best way to go. If you don't know anyone to help, lessons on Chessmaster are quite good. And books, I'd say Weapons of Chess by Pandolfinni to get a good understanding of tactics and Silman's endgame course to get a basic understanding of the fundamentals. 

kindaspongey
NM ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

Hey, once again we've succeeded in confusing the hell out of somebody!

Part of the problem is that a number of different issues are mixed together. For an individual issue, perhaps some clarity would come from a focus on comments for that issue. Example:

"... Jeremy Silman’s book 'Reassess your chess' ... It’s a pretty long read but it’s helped me reach 1400 with great ease!! ..." - spencerg2017 (~11 days ago)

"How to Reassess Your Chess, 4th Edition was designed for players in the 1400 to 2100 range." - IM Jeremy Silman (2010)

"... I don't think he'll like HTRYC. ..." - llamonade (~10 days ago)

"... Silman's HTRYC isn't bad and has its place but isn't for people who are relatively inexperieced. ..." - Savage47 (~10 days ago)

Still uncertain? Here are two online commentaries:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708095832/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review769.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626180930/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman06.pdf

and an actual sample from the book:

https://www.silmanjamespress.com/shop/chess/how-to-reassess-your-chess-4th-edition/

ziplinekitkat

sorry I have no idea I'm still I think 600-900 somwher like that

kindaspongey

Another example of a focus on comments for a specific issue:

"Stay away from anything ... that ... foolishly tries to fulfil the promise of the title when to do so truthfully is not possible (as in Irving Chernev's Logical chess Move by Move ... which gives oversimplified reasons why some moves were played, especially in the opening where the reasons he gives are often far from anything the players might have been thinking). ..." - SchaakVoorAlles (~1 day ago)

"... While this is a great book, there are some areas where it is showing its age (having first been issued nearly a half century ago). … I had a few quibbles not related to the age of the book as well. ... Regardless of these types of issues, this is a very good book. Perhaps it isn't as timeless as it once appeared to me, but it should prove useful to any aspiring player wanting to better understand how to develop logical plans, moves, and thought processes in chess." - Randy Bauer (2002)

"... in trying to write something about every move he gives shallow (and often incorrect) reasons why they were played. ... it gives a misconception about how strong players think, about effective chess preparation, and about the difficulties of the game. ..." - SchaakVoorAlles (~1 day ago)

"... In many ways, it would a wonderful 'first' book (or first 'serious' book, after the ones which teach the rules and elementary mates, for example), and a nice gift for a young player just taking up chess. ... My only warning would be that the impressionable student should be gently reminded by a friend or mentor that most of the rules and principles Chernev so dogmatically states do not actually have any consistent validity in real-world chess, so that the book should be looked at as a way to get started thinking about positions, not as a reliable guideline to what chess is really about. With that proviso, I would recommend it heartily to anyone just starting to explore the game, and therefore, to scholastic chess teachers as well. …" - IM John Watson (1999)

One can see some discussion of the pros and cons of Chernev's Logical Chess at:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627132019/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman118.pdf

http://exeterchessclub.org.uk/content/logical-chernev

http://chessskill.blogspot.com/2013/01/logical-chess-book-review.html

http://chessskill.blogspot.com/2013/02/chernevs-errors.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708104437/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/logichess.pdf

http://theweekinchess.com/john-watson-reviews/assorted-recent-books

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708091057/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review465.pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708092945/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review269.pdf

llamonade
jahlone wrote:

You all have overloaded me lol. I think I'm more confused now lol. 

And does this comment stop @kindaspongey from posting bibliographies? 

No. He just keeps on truckin'

kindaspongey
"You all have overloaded me lol. I think I'm more confused now lol." - jahlone (~1 day ago)
"And does this comment stop … kindaspongey from posting bibliographies? No. He just keeps on truckin'" - llamonade (~4 minutes ago)
kindaspongey wrote (~19 hours ago):

… Part of the problem is that a number of different issues are mixed together. For an individual issue, perhaps some clarity would come from a focus on comments for that issue. ...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

llamonade

@kindaspongey
Your heart's in the right place, and you don't give bad links, but if you look at it from a beginner's point of view it's easy to see how they might be suffering from information overload.

hikarunaku

I suggested him to make a blog and surely people who are interested will read it but on the forums it would nice if he would provide his own opinion. 

kindaspongey

"You all ..." - jahlone (~1 day ago)

llamonade
kindaspongey wrote:

"You all ..." - jahlone (~1 day ago)

Lets look at his post then.

 

Post #51.

In the 50 posts that came before it, 24 were from you, and you posted 61 links. Although the posts were not quite 50% yours, I'm sure due to their size you've contributed over 50% of this topic's material.

 

In any case, progressing past 1200 does not require 24 posts worth of advice much less 61 links of reading material much-much less the presumably dozens of books you referenced. It can be summed up in a few sentences:

 - Solve a few puzzles every day
 - Play a few games every day
 - When you make mistakes (in games or puzzles), review them and think about how you might avoid it next time

---

It may not be fun, it may not be optimized, but it's simple and most importantly manageable.

And as a player continues to play and improve they'll figure out what they like and what works for them.

kindaspongey
llamonade wrote:

... Post #51. In the 50 posts that came before it, 24 were from you, and you posted 61 links. Although the posts were not quite 50% yours, I'm sure due to their size you've contributed over 50% of this topic's material. ...

Much of it being further information about suggestions of others. So, for example, when someone brought up Amateur to IM, it seemed to me to be worthwhile to add such things as that the book is primarily an endgame primer, and that IM John Donaldson thought that the target audience of the book was “players rated from 1800-2400." Such things (and access to actual samples from books) seem to me to have the potential to be enormously helpful for a person making a decision about what to buy, and my intention is to continue to provide such information until jahlone asks me to stop. The “you all” comment does not seem to me to be such a request. Jahlone mentioned books right at the beginning: “... I would like good resources mostly books and otherwise. ...”

Drunken_Shrimp

ah, the smell of progess 

 

Drunken_Shrimp

whoops, thats kinda big

Drunken_Shrimp
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

The last time I order Chocolate Surprise from Foster's Freeze.

sorry wink.png

Drunken_Shrimp

XD

llamonade
kindaspongey wrote:
llamonade wrote:

... Post #51. In the 50 posts that came before it, 24 were from you, and you posted 61 links. Although the posts were not quite 50% yours, I'm sure due to their size you've contributed over 50% of this topic's material. ...

Much of it being further information about suggestions of others. So, for example, when someone brought up Amateur to IM, it seemed to me to be worthwhile to add such things as that the book is primarily an endgame primer, and that IM John Donaldson thought that the target audience of the book was “players rated from 1800-2400." Such things (and access to actual samples from books) seem to me to have the potential to be enormously helpful for a person making a decision about what to buy, and my intention is to continue to provide such information until jahlone asks me to stop. The “you all” comment does not seem to me to be such a request. Jahlone mentioned books right at the beginning: “... I would like good resources mostly books and otherwise. ...”

Well, we can agree to disagree, but it's nice to see you actually talk for yourself (if I want book reviews I've known how to use a search engine for... maybe two decades).

kindaspongey
llamonade wrote:

... if I want book reviews I've known how to use a search engine for... maybe two decades ...

I think that I have made it somewhat easier to look at reviews and samples for a lot of books that people have brought up, and, of course, there is also the matter of picking out key information such as the statement that the target audience of a book is “players rated from 1800-2400”.