ICCF Correspondence Play

Correspondence Play--ICCF US

Engines are allowed and used in ICCF US play. Playing, using chess engines as a help is sometimes called "Centaur Chess" At the highest levels of play--this kind of play is a search for the truth. Sometimes the play can be of a higher quality than of even some supergrandmasters.

It is also a good way to explore the openings.

My experience with this kind of play occured in two Exhibition Matches here on Chess.com.

One Exhibition Match was with the Black side of the Ponziani [1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3] with several individual games vs several strong players. The other exhibition match was with the Black side of the Kings Gambit [ 1. e4 e5 2. f4] with several individual games vs several strong players.

I found that such games are NOT just chess engine vs chess engine. Also it is not true that one can do well just by leaving your chess engine going over night. Now, at my age of 74, I am not very good at research as is the strong player, Firebrand X.

One can do well in these games by "guiding his chess engine" In other words one must be strong enough to take the chess engine off of some lines and "double or triple down" on other lines. Often, one must force the chess engine to examine lines it had not thought of before.

There are a few over-the-board players who like to put down ICCF play. However it is unfair to disparage a group of players [thousands] because they play a type of chess you do not like [and very probably would not be good at it either]

One USCF master, here on chess.com loves to disparage ICCF players. He stopped playing "because chess engines have taken over modern day correspondence chess and is why I quit this form of chess in the 90's"

However when he played, before chess engines were used, he never rose very high in the ranks of ICCF play.

This person also made the statement: "In correspondence chess you do not need to be a strong chess player to get ratings and titles."

A good reply was give by rtr1129--Here is part of his reply: "There is no 'true chess'. It is just as foolish as sprinters mocking marathon runners as not being good at running, when the reality is both sprinters and runners are equally incompetent at the other's sport."

I recently played a Centaur like game vs a strong master here per a semi exhibition here on Chess.com. It was a really tough game for both sides but it had a very beautiful possible ending...Am showing the ending to show what can happen in Correspondence play [Centaur Chess] Ponz vs a strong master

Opening was Albin Counter Gambit [1.d4 d5 2. c4 e5 3. dxe5 d4]

Nice puzzle!

My first instinct was Bc5 with a kinghunt. The engine agrees this leads to a forced mate in 8. Stalemating black queen is more beautiful, though.

Looks like I am more a chess assasin than an artist 

Wei Yi just played a very nice game vs Stefan Bromberger.  It has a somewhat similar motive.  Hope someone will post it here! 

Thanks for posting the game!

Beautiful or sadistic ? 

Beautiful, have you ever in all your chess years seen another tactic like this?

Not as neat as this one, but in the Gusev vs. Averbakh game, black has King and Rook kept in a prison, while black Q is seemingly in the open, but in reality confined to just a couple of places from which it can control f8 where a mate-in-1 is threatened. Rumour has it that the move 24.Qxe5 in that game is not discoverable with any engine.

I would love to see the positions you people are referring to.

I have had tactics that a chess engine could not see in advance--several moves down a tactical line. Once played a team where chess engines were allowed but the chess engines were not so strong as they are now. But even with today's strength could not see the whole tactic.   

Here's the link (it might not have been very visible in my original post).

http://www.chess.com/games/view?id=53873

I am sure you'll have fun stepping through this game -- for an immediate reward, start at black's move 23, and consider what white should do ....

Very nice!

A top CC player will see the best idea and kick the chess engine off

24. Qa3. 

Here is another position that the top chess engines cannot find the answer but a 74 year old man figured out in less than 10 minutes:

White to play, find the best continuation...

White to play--Find the best continuation..

Go ahead, set up the position on your chess engine and see if it finds the solution....

Stockfish 6 finds what looks like a fortress:
1.f3 a4 2.Kf2 a3 3.Kg3 a2 4.Kxh3 a1=Q 5.Kxg2 and white puts the king on g3 and shuffles the bishop around g1-a7 diagonal.

Black cannot break through with the king anywhere and the queen alone is unable to give checkmate.

Even though this line is correct, Stockfish gives -5.96 which translates to "black completely wins". Engines do not understand the concept of fortress and cannot recognize the fact there is no way to make progress for the side with the advantage.

you run at the a pawn with the king then hike up to c7 pawn

study the endgame and you will see black can't protect the c7 pawn because of opposition. I'm going. its called positional zugzwang