the one who would win would be...
the one playing better chess
(my opinion is it'd end up a tie)
If Fischer would played Karpov for the World Champion, who would win?
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Aug 5, 2015
0
#1583
Not silly at all. The record demonstrates than circa 1974-78, Karpov was a quick starter, but a terrible finisher.
The Polugaevsky match only went 8 games, and the Spassky match only went 11 games.
Aug 5, 2015
0
#1584
Jamie, what the Candidates matches showed was that Karpov was a vast improvement over anything Fischer had faced in 1972.
Fischer threw up as many objections as possible to the match. In later years, Karpov met Fischer to discuss a possible match, but it was clear that Fischer really didn't want to play.
"The record demonstrates than circa 1974-78, Karpov was a quick starter, but a terrible finisher"
He did score the best results in the beginning of those matches, but beating Korchnoi was never easy. Karpov did win that last game in 1978, and in 1974 he was also winning the last game but offered draw since that was all that he needed.
Korchnoi is often underestimated. People conclude that since he didn't beat Karpov he can't have been all that good, and Karpov's wins against him become unimpressive since Korchnoi supposedly wasn't all that good, but look at his semifinal and final Candidates matches before the first title match against Karpov. After 7 games against Polugaevsky he had 5-0, after 10 games against Spassky he had 5-0 (in the two Candidates matches through which he qualified to play Korchnoi, Spassky had lost three of 31 games when beating world #5 and #6). In 1979 Korchnoi was only 10 Elo behind Karpov in first place.
No Korchnoi did not have a plus score against Fischer, it was tied; 2 win each and 4 draws.
Why would Fischer be afraid of Karpov when Anatoly lost so bad against Korchnoi. Karpov did not listen to good advice and he ignore Petrosian warning. I guess Furman and Geller were asleep in this game, they fail to find a defect in their opening preparation for Karpov. zzzz One point for Petrosian for being aware of the danger and zero for Karpov being asleep and haughty and ignoring Petrosian warning.
Why would Fischer be afraid of Karpov, when Anatoly can't survive out of the opening against a 2690 elo. Fischer was more aggressive and with a dynamic style would be too much for Karpov, especially in a long match. Fischer has the ability to win as black,Spassky fail in his match against Karpov to adjust to Karpov's Caro-Kann defense, Karpov was satisfy to draw as black and win as white; this would not work with Fischer, because Fischer is always trying to win as black.
"Why would Fischer be afraid of Karpov when Anatoly lost so bad against Korchnoi"
Anatoly played three matches against Korchnoi and won all of them, Fischer on the other hand did not have a plus score against Korchnoi...
Aug 6, 2015
0
#1589
I think many of you are forgetting that Karpov beat Korchnoi when he was 48, well passed his prime.
"I think many of you are forgetting that Karpov beat Korchnoi when he was 48, well passed his prime"
Korchnoi was 43 and had not yet reached his peak when Karpov won the first of his three matches against him.
Aug 6, 2015
0
#1591
The pioneering work of Professor Arpad Elo showed that most of the greatest chess players had their best years in their late 20s to early 30s.
A select few, such as Korchnoi, Lasker & Maroczy, had lengthly careers, but still were strongest within the same 20's to 30's timeframe.
According to ChessMetrics, Korchnoi was momentarily the strongest player in the world from September 1965 to December 1965. Being an individualist of sorts, Korchnoi was frequently in the Collectivist doghouse. It is no wonder he defected to the West.
Aug 6, 2015
0
#1592
"I think many of you are forgetting that Karpov beat Korchnoi when he was 48, well passed his prime"
Korchnoi was 43 and had not yet reached his peak when Karpov won the first of his three
matches against him.
Korchnoi was born in 1931. The match was played in 1978. He was 47.
Aug 6, 2015
0
#1593
-
halfgreek1963 wrote:
"I think many of you are forgetting that Karpov beat Korchnoi when he was 48, well passed his prime"
Korchnoi was 43 and had not yet reached his peak when Karpov won the first of his three
matches against him.
Korchnoi was born in 1931. The match was played in 1978. He was 47.
"The pioneering work of Professor Arpad Elo showed that most of the greatest chess players had their best years in their late 20s to early 30s.
A select few, such as Korchnoi, Lasker & Maroczy, had lengthly careers, but still were strongest within the same 20's to 30's timeframe"
No, Korchnoi definitely was far from his peak in his late 20s/early 30s. Chessmetrics rank all his five best performances when he was well into his 40s. One can't state when Korchnoi peaked by just looking at his age and claim that most players peak earlier without looking at his actual results.
When Korchnoi was a bit into his 30s he qualified for his first Candidates and finished bottom half. Quite a difference compared to his results around his peak in his 40s, when he annihilated all opposition in Candidates after Candidates, and Karpov was the only player in the world that could beat him.
Aug 6, 2015
0
#1596
Korchnoi was not free to pursue a normal career. His results, like those who were active players at the time of WW-I and WW-II, are somewhat skewed.
Furthermore, Korchnoi was never the darling of the Soviet Chess authorities. Hence, his results were often manipulated. Karpov related:
Karpov, in his book Karpov on Karpov (Atheneum 1993), writes that, because of Fischer's overwhelming form at that time, Korchnoi and Petrosian were asked by Soviet chess authorities to choose between themselves, before the match, who they thought would have the better chance of stopping Fischer in the finals. Petrosian apparently believed strongly in himself, and so Korchnoi was asked to throw the match, receiving as compensation invitations to the three most prestigious tournaments in western Europe. Petrosian, however, lost to Fischer by the score of (+1−5=3) late in 1971.
An astounding admission!
Karpov never had much against "admitting" that Korchnoi threw games or matches etc. What Korchnoi himself wrote in his autobiography was:
"The match turned out be highly tedious; we played eight draws in a row! [...] People joked that neither of us wanted to win the match, and then meet Fischer. In the West many were thinking the same way, being unable to believe that the match was being played seriously. And only those who knew me well realized that I was trying very hard, but that my play was not coming off. I was most upset when, in the heat of the moment, I overreached myself, and lost from an excellent position in the ninth game"
Chess is my life, p. 79.
JamieDelarosa wrote:
Korchnoi was not free to pursue a normal career. His results, like those who were active players at the time of WW-I and WW-II, are somewhat skewed.
Furthermore, Korchnoi was never the darling of the Soviet Chess authorities. Hence, his results were often manipulated. Karpov related:
Karpov, in his book Karpov on Karpov (Atheneum 1993), writes that, because of Fischer's overwhelming form at that time, Korchnoi and Petrosian were asked by Soviet chess authorities to choose between themselves, before the match, who they thought would have the better chance of stopping Fischer in the finals. Petrosian apparently believed strongly in himself, and so Korchnoi was asked to throw the match, receiving as compensation invitations to the three most prestigious tournaments in western Europe. Petrosian, however, lost to Fischer by the score of (+1−5=3) late in 1971.
An astounding admission!
Misleading/twisting post. No where in your quote that it was mentioned Korchnoi results was manipulated. They only choosed between Petrosian and Korchnoi.
Fischer
I always like Karpov never once did I root for Korchnoi, I totally dislike Korchnoi, foul mouth, disloyal to his family( Leaving his family behind in Russian), once his son ask Korchnoi to teach him chess but his reply was go get a chess book and learn, Korchnoi is rude and unsportmanship ( kicking a nice GM Petrosian's leg under the table when they were playing their candidate match), I don't believe one word GM Raymond Keene book in world champion match 1978 what he said of Karpov. My disappoint is why Karpov did not crush Korchnoi in their match, I would of been very happy if Karpov crush Korchnoi 6-0. :) So don't think for one moment I dislike Karpov, I don't. But I like Fischer better and he would give Karpov a chess lesson; even Karpov said Fischer chances were better in 1975 in winning the match. So all you players who say that Karpov will beat Fischer when Karpov said he probably will lose; are you saying you know better than Karpov about his chances in the match against Fischer.
It's silly to pick a few matches Karpov won, or played against Kasparov, to "prove" that he wasn't a beast. Fischer didn't have a plus score against Korchnoi, so Karpov's beating Korchnoi in all the matches they played shouldn't be held against him too much. To list some of Karpov's match results:
3-0 in wins against Polugaevsky in 1974
4-1 against Spassky in 1974
3-2 against Korchnoi in 1974
A tough eight month period for a player that was 22-23, 43 games just in Candidates matches, which weren't his only events during those eight months
6-2 in title match in 1981
Leading 5-3 against Kasparov after 48 games in 1984 when the match was stopped
Winning Candidates final 4-0 in 1987
Drawing Kasparov over 24 games in 1987
4-0 in wins in Candidates final 1990
Beating Anand in Candidates 1991
Beating Gelfand 4-1 in Candidates final 1995
Beating Kamsky 6-3 in FIDE title match 1996
Beating Anand in FIDE title match 1998 (with rules very much in his favour though)