annoyingtriangle wrote:
30+0
Where there any spectators?
Illegal Moves
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Nov 18, 2022
0
#23
Batman2508 wrote:
annoyingtriangle wrote:
30+0
Where there any spectators?
Yeah, there were quite a few.
Nov 18, 2022
0
#24
tygxc wrote:
@1
Laws of Chess: https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012018
7.5.1 An illegal move is completed once the player has pressed his clock.
If during a game it is found that an illegal move has been completed, the position immediately before the irregularity shall be reinstated.
If the position immediately before the irregularity cannot be determined, the game shall continue from the last identifiable position prior to the irregularity. Articles 4.3 and 4.7 apply to the move replacing the illegal move. The game shall then continue from this reinstated position.
7.5.5 After the action taken under Article 7.5.1, 7.5.2, 7.5.3 or 7.5.4 for the first completed illegal move by a player, the arbiter shall give two minutes extra time to his opponent; for the second completed illegal move by the same player the arbiter shall declare the game lost by this player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.
"A.1 A ‘Rapid chess’ game is one where either all the moves must be completed in a fixed time of more than 10 minutes but less than 60 minutes for each player; or the time allotted plus 60 times any increment is of more than 10 minutes but less than 60 minutes for each player."
"A.4.2
If the arbiter observes an action taken under Article 7.5.1, 7.5.2, 7.5.3 or 7.5.4, he shall act according to Article 7.5.5, provided the opponent has not made his next move. If the arbiter does not intervene, the opponent is entitled to claim, provided the opponent has not made his next move. If the opponent does not claim and the arbiter does not intervene, the illegal move shall stand and the game shall continue. Once the opponent has made his next move, an illegal move cannot be corrected unless this is agreed by the players without intervention of the arbiter."
This is from the FIDE handbook, but the tournament was USCF rated.
Nov 18, 2022
0
#25
annoyingtriangle wrote:
Batman2508 wrote:
Martin_Stahl wrote:
annoyingtriangle wrote:
What should be done, since he didn't give me the penalty, and I flagged?
Once the game was recorded as a loss I don't think there's any you can do. Appeals are possible but have to get done during the event.
So basically no action to get back rating
So, we play one game a week and after five games, he puts in the tournament to USCF. This was week three, so is there still something that I can do because it wasn't submitted yet?
The result was already recorded. An appeal has to be done within a short time, something like 30 minutes. There's a process that TDs can use, if they don't bother to verify the rule themselves or believe theyr interpretation is correct, to contact someone and get a formal ruling.
I've never used it though. I'm fairly certain you lost your chance though at this point.
Nov 18, 2022
0
#26
tygxc wrote:
@1
Laws of Chess: https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012018
7.5.1 An illegal move is completed once the player has pressed his clock.
If during a game it is found that an illegal move has been completed, the position immediately before the irregularity shall be reinstated.
If the position immediately before the irregularity cannot be determined, the game shall continue from the last identifiable position prior to the irregularity. Articles 4.3 and 4.7 apply to the move replacing the illegal move. The game shall then continue from this reinstated position.
7.5.5 After the action taken under Article 7.5.1, 7.5.2, 7.5.3 or 7.5.4 for the first completed illegal move by a player, the arbiter shall give two minutes extra time to his opponent; for the second completed illegal move by the same player the arbiter shall declare the game lost by this player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.
"A.1 A ‘Rapid chess’ game is one where either all the moves must be completed in a fixed time of more than 10 minutes but less than 60 minutes for each player; or the time allotted plus 60 times any increment is of more than 10 minutes but less than 60 minutes for each player."
"A.4.2
If the arbiter observes an action taken under Article 7.5.1, 7.5.2, 7.5.3 or 7.5.4, he shall act according to Article 7.5.5, provided the opponent has not made his next move. If the arbiter does not intervene, the opponent is entitled to claim, provided the opponent has not made his next move. If the opponent does not claim and the arbiter does not intervene, the illegal move shall stand and the game shall continue. Once the opponent has made his next move, an illegal move cannot be corrected unless this is agreed by the players without intervention of the arbiter."
The OP has a US flag. Unless the event was FIDE rated, which is highly unlikely, that has zero bearing on the situation.
Nov 18, 2022
0
#27
Martin_Stahl wrote:
annoyingtriangle wrote:
Batman2508 wrote:
Martin_Stahl wrote:
annoyingtriangle wrote:
What should be done, since he didn't give me the penalty, and I flagged?
Once the game was recorded as a loss I don't think there's any you can do. Appeals are possible but have to get done during the event.
So basically no action to get back rating
So, we play one game a week and after five games, he puts in the tournament to USCF. This was week three, so is there still something that I can do because it wasn't submitted yet?
The result was already recorded. An appeal has to be done within a short time, something like 30 minutes. There's a process that TDs can use, if they don't bother to verify the rule themselves or believe theyr interpretation is correct, to contact someone and get a formal ruling.
I've never used it though. I'm fairly certain you lost your chance though at this point.
Immediately after the illegal move, I told him, but he didn't do anything about it. He told me that he would look into the rules after the game, though.
Nov 18, 2022
0
#28
The TD should have looked immediately, while the clock was paused if they were unsure. After the game is too late in such a situation.
That said, that was the only opportunity to potentially influence the game results. You could open a complaint with US Chess, but that won't change the game results.
Nov 18, 2022
0
#29
But he did come and look, acknowledged that an illegal move was played, but didn't give a penalty.
Nov 18, 2022
0
#30
annoyingtriangle wrote:
But he did come and look, acknowledged that an illegal move was played, but didn't give a penalty.
Once the ruling is made, that is when the appeal must be made, within a short time period. It's too late once there is a result to modify that result.
So, no matter what, the results of the game are what they are. You could contact US Chess and file a complaint against the TD. I'm 99% sure my reading of the rule is correct and if the office agreed, I'm pretty sure the only thing that would happen is that the TD would be made aware of the incorrect ruling so it doesn't happen again.
Nov 18, 2022
0
#31
Had the ruling been about a draw claim that was denied and should have been upheld, that might be a different story, since a valid draw claim would have ended the game as a draw. However, with a game that was subsequently played out, that result is what matters.
@1
Laws of Chess: https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012018
7.5.1 An illegal move is completed once the player has pressed his clock.
If during a game it is found that an illegal move has been completed, the position immediately before the irregularity shall be reinstated.
If the position immediately before the irregularity cannot be determined, the game shall continue from the last identifiable position prior to the irregularity. Articles 4.3 and 4.7 apply to the move replacing the illegal move. The game shall then continue from this reinstated position.
7.5.5 After the action taken under Article 7.5.1, 7.5.2, 7.5.3 or 7.5.4 for the first completed illegal move by a player, the arbiter shall give two minutes extra time to his opponent; for the second completed illegal move by the same player the arbiter shall declare the game lost by this player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.
"A.1 A ‘Rapid chess’ game is one where either all the moves must be completed in a fixed time of more than 10 minutes but less than 60 minutes for each player; or the time allotted plus 60 times any increment is of more than 10 minutes but less than 60 minutes for each player."
"A.4.2
If the arbiter observes an action taken under Article 7.5.1, 7.5.2, 7.5.3 or 7.5.4, he shall act according to Article 7.5.5, provided the opponent has not made his next move. If the arbiter does not intervene, the opponent is entitled to claim, provided the opponent has not made his next move. If the opponent does not claim and the arbiter does not intervene, the illegal move shall stand and the game shall continue. Once the opponent has made his next move, an illegal move cannot be corrected unless this is agreed by the players without intervention of the arbiter."