Is black just busted after Nd5?

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Avatar of InfiniteFlash

I think black is lost, haven't checked with a computer, but it looks like every single line ive went through looks awful for black.



Avatar of TitanCG

12...Kd8 13.Nc6+ Kc8 deserves a look too.

Avatar of InfiniteFlash
TitanCG wrote:

12...Kd8 13.Nc6+ Kc8 deserves a look too.

i think the problem for black after 13..Kc8 is that 14.Bh3! forces black into an extremely uncomfortable zugzwang (knight on f6 cant move because of Re8, Knight on d7 is pinned, bishop on f8 cant move, neither rook is active, and the only seemingly active move to get some counterplay is with 14..Bxc6 15.dxc6 Qxc6 16.Bg2 when black has to play d5 and open more lines to avoid dropping the rook.

Avatar of InfiniteFlash
itsmedaniel wrote:

If 14. Bh3 then just 14. ...gxh3, I think. I don't see how it's a zugzwang or how any knight is pinned. Unless you talk of a continuation other then 12. ...Kd8 13. Nc6+ Kc8. If you are, then I'm sure that Bh3?? just made everything even worse for white

You are trolling, please stop.

Avatar of InfiniteFlash

Yes, I saw what you did. You said 14..gxh3, black has never pushed the g-pawn, so that's an impossible move, and then you claim Bh3 is a bad move with no further analysis, the onus is on you to support your claim that this position is good for black as you claim.

Avatar of InfiniteFlash

Bh6 is a horrible move! lol

Avatar of InfiniteFlash

In anycase, I haven't checked this with a comp, but I have a feeling that black is busted after Bh3, no moves....terrible

Avatar of HattrickStinkyduiker

Yeah this look pretty hard to defend for black, I'm not sure it's lost though.

I think I'd go for your 12...Kd8 line and after 16. Bb2, play Be7. 17. c5, Kc8 maybe? I don't see an immidate win.

At least your pieces get somewhat developed there. Sure white has tons of conpensation, but a piece is a piece, it still looks pretty complicated.

Avatar of TitanCG

I'm not sure why Black needs to take on c6. The damage is done and Black will always be cramped. I think the knight can stay there as long as the king won't have to move. Why not something like 12...Kd8 13.Nc6+ Kc8 14.Bh3 g6? The rook on h8 can cover the backrank and the bishop on g7 can protect the knight on f6. Sure it looks tough but how does White break through?

Avatar of HattrickStinkyduiker
TitanCG wrote:

I'm not sure why Black needs to take on c6. The damage is done and Black will always be cramped. I think the knight can stay there as long as the king won't have to move. Why not something like 12...Kd8 13.Nc6+ Kc8 14.Bh3 g6? The rook on h8 can cover the backrank and the bishop on g7 can protect the knight on f6. Sure it looks tough but how does White break through?

How about 15. Bg5, Bg7 16. Re7 there?

Avatar of HattrickStinkyduiker
WebZero wrote:

I think I would resign after 18. a4 After 19. Bd2 and 20. d6, it would be a slow and painful death.

I'd play it on against a GM even, why would you resign? It's not such an easy win at all, plenty of opportunities for white to mess up.

Say 19.Bd2, Qd4 20.d6, Ra7. White might have a win, but I don't see it being slow and painful

Avatar of TheGreatOogieBoogie

Looks like a fun yet unclear position.  There are darksquare weaknesses, but it looks too easy to exchange said bishops for white.  However, trades usually benefit the side with less space, such as black.  The passed d-pawn plugs the traditionally weak d5 hole, and is easily restrained by black's pieces.  The black king doesn't look too safe, but as long as black has resources to defend against white leveraging checks against him to improve his position he should be fine.  White should try avoiding exchanges as the black king has an easy march toward the center in the endgame. 

A possible plan could involve moving the Nf6 and reinforcing the e-pawn with an f-pawn, though fixing pawns on the same color as your bishop isn't a good idea usually. 

If black has nothing better then he could just play Bd6 and try getting the other rook into the game. 

The c-pawn is hanging, but doesn't look safe to capture and removes a defender of the d6 square. 

Avatar of Spinaltap

yup it sucks for black

Avatar of TheGreatOogieBoogie

True.  I'd play ...Bd6 after Nb3 and hope for the best.  Doesn't look too hard for white to convert into a win anyway. 

Avatar of pfren

i dunno, black looks awful here to me

White has no more than a slight advantage in this position (and I'd rather pick 15.Nf3 or 15.Nf5 over 15.Nb3).

12...Kd8 is extremely risky, but 12...Ne5 is OK.