Is there such thing as "luck" in chess?

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mpaetz
Optimissed wrote:
mpaetz wrote:

     As the original conception of luck was that it was controlled by divine will, it's existence or non-existence lies beyond the scope of rigorous scientific enquiry.


I don't see why. Also that's an historical conception but not the "original" one. Animism doesn't mean a single, divine will.

     Whether there were specific deities handing out good fortune or competing deities trying to control human events, or one over-riding (or sole) authority, hardly matters. I would be interested in how you would scientifically measure the variable divine whims that would constitute "luck".

LeeEuler

Bringing back this old friend. Some luck mentioned between GM's Giri and Caruana in the latter's podcast. 

“Yeah exactly I mean uh surprising is an understatement. I always enjoy watching your podcast because you're always to the point but you don't like to exaggerate things so you'd rather use an understatement than an exaggeration but it was indeed the shocking turn of events I have to say the last two days in particular yeah that was just a pure luck. In my sort of defense I had great highlights at the start of the tournament and I've had many good years in wyke where clearly if you call this luck you should call that bad luck because exactly the same kind of thing happened but the reverse…in this event in the last two days I have to say I've never been this lucky before, it really fell my way like more than ever. Indeed it was just like a pure coincidence that I managed to win in the end”-Anish at 35:26 https://youtu.be/ptozAILwjmc?t=2127 

“Well the luck factor is something that’s very important for sure but it does balance out.”- Fabi at 39:05 https://youtu.be/ptozAILwjmc?t=2345

penguin1563
LeeEuler

Again reviving this old fried. A nice article on Lichess today here.

BubsyBobcat

This has probably been mentioned. But if so.eones phone data rums out and they were in the lead. That's good luck for the underdog

slither_master_koala

it’s not luck if you win it’s opponent too bad or you better

piedraven

Luck is involved to a small extent. Sometimes I can be sharp, lucid, and then out of nowhere I start blundering; the brain has good days and bad days just like anything else you do such as running or playing an instrument.

slither_master_koala

Chess is just like math if you say one day because the computer has bad luck so it got 1+1=3 isn’t that weird?

GMLombardo

This is why there is the saying “it’s a skill issue” it’s usually a meme but it’s true meaning is really just: you lost by accident or I won by luck in a game that is all about skill.

mpaetz
slither_master_koala wrote:

Chess is just like math if you say one day because the computer has bad luck so it got 1+1=3 isn’t that weird?

But if your neighborhood was hit by a power outage and your computer (or nearby cell phone tower) went dead, turning your K+R vs K advantage into a loss on time, just what skill did your opponent use to get the win?

DiogenesDue
mpaetz wrote:

But if your neighborhood was hit by a power outage and your computer (or nearby cell phone tower) went dead, turning your K+R vs K advantage into a loss on time, just what skill did your opponent use to get the win?

Going right back to the eternal impasse of these threads happy.png.

piedraven
Optimissed wrote:
piedraven wrote:

Luck is involved to a small extent. Sometimes I can be sharp, lucid, and then out of nowhere I start blundering; the brain has good days and bad days just like anything else you do such as running or playing an instrument.

But that isn't luck. Real luck does play a part in chess though. Maybe a larger part than what some people who support the idea of luck in chess think. However, the more we're on top of our game at any given time, the less we're susceptible to it and so the less it influences the result. We can't say it doesn't exist, though, just because luck often comes into play when blunders occur. It's pointless to recap all the ways that can happen. It's sufficient to allow others either to get it or not get it. There's no golden rule that says we have to help others to think well all the time.

Unsure if I agree or disagree. Isn't it luck if I just happen to have a good or bad day? I sometimes almost feel I can't claim credit for my wins because I just go on automatic. Sometimes I can be conscientious about doing everything right and still blunder a lot and lose. Sometimes I can happen to be in a slightly aggressive mood, and I'll switch gears and just go on automatic and fire off whatever reckless tactics I think up on the spot, and yet win.

orrin14

so many people post here

Ziryab

I won an OTB tournament a couple of weeks ago.

Round 1. Completely outplayed my opponent.
Round 2. Was worse early in the opening, equalized by the middle game. Neither of us could get a clear advantage until my opponent made an error in the endgame.
Round 3. I took a bye.
Round 4. Was worse for most of the game. With time running short, my opponent sacrificed a knight to expose my king. He could have built up more pressure with two other moves and I would have been sunk. His knight sacrifice gave me the game.
Round 5. Got an clear advantage out of the opening. Squandered it. Thought, incorrectly, that I was losing two or three moves before I made a losing move that was part of my desperate plan to complicate a lost game. Two moves later, my opponent erred and I capitalized.

I’d say that three of my four wins had an element of luck (bad decisions by my opponents).

Chessflyfisher

Quack, quack!

mpaetz
Optimissed wrote:
8thMarch2023 wrote:

Is there such a thing as luck at all?

Yall seem to love semantics.

Obviously there is. Can you refute it?

I know you can do better than asking someone to prove a negative, something for which you would take others to task. The belief that the goddess Tyche (Greek--Fortuna to the Romans) intentionally chooses whether we get good or bad luck can't be disproved, but that doesn't prove that she is deliberately working to keep you safe every time you are outside during a thunderstorm.

Jonschesschannel

Luck in Chess:
Your opponent blundering or you accidentally making a very good move. 
I wouldn't rely on it though, this isn't boxing... it'll take more than one lucky move to win a game.

Kotshmot
Jonschesschannel wrote:

Luck in Chess:
Your opponent blundering or you accidentally making a very good move. 
I wouldn't rely on it though, this isn't boxing... it'll take more than one lucky move to win a game.

Your opponent blundering in itself is just lack of skill leading to a bad outcome, not necessarily luck. You accidentally making a good move is luck indeed, in other words making a move that achieves something you werent aware of.

lfPatriotGames
Kotshmot wrote:
Jonschesschannel wrote:

Luck in Chess:
Your opponent blundering or you accidentally making a very good move. 
I wouldn't rely on it though, this isn't boxing... it'll take more than one lucky move to win a game.

Your opponent blundering in itself is just lack of skill leading to a bad outcome, not necessarily luck. You accidentally making a good move is luck indeed, in other words making a move that achieves something you werent aware of.

I have accidentally made good moves before. Lots of times. I've also accidentally made bad moves. When I think of luck in chess I think of the times I had no idea where to move. None. Like most people I narrow it down to about 5 seemingly reasonable choices. And because I have to move (I'll lose if I don't) I have to pick one of those 5. I can't flip a coin, because there aren't 5 sides to a coin. I can't close my eyes and move because I might make a really bad move by not watching. I've done Eeny Meeny Miny Moe before. And that works. So I'll make the choice based solely on something that has nothing to do with the position. Like the way the knight is facing, or we might be talking about The Crown, and move the queen.

If that's not luck I don't know what is.

Abhinav

Clearly, you need a dice. Faced with six or more possible moves? Bam! Double dice!!