Looking for Chess Coach

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Avatar of ColdCoffee
Reb wrote:

Unless you have plenty of money to pay a coach/teacher/trainer I think you should just work on your own until you find that you have reached a point that you no longer make progress working on your own. I never worked with a trainer/coach until after I was over 2200, which I did on my own. I simply couldnt afford to pay for chess lessons/training so had no choice.


This is very valuable advice.

Avatar of ColdCoffee
orangehonda wrote:

Coach vs no coach -
     Coaches are great for giving you that sense of direction, and it's true you'll tend to make more progress with a coach then without.  However, the greener the student, the less difference you'll see between coach and no-coach.  Online coaches in particular are limited to how much they can do.  Often they have multiple students and hand out common enough advice.

     Having made it (nearly) through a masters program you know how to budget your time and study.  If your only goal is to be competent enough to not lose all your games at a tourney then 1 year of self study would do that, i.e. minus the cost of a coach.  If you're looking for someone to annotate your games, I'd be more than willing to go over one every now and then (you can message me) or simply post one over at the game analysis forum 

 

Cost and effectiveness of a coach -
     One of the most important methods to improvement as a beginner/lower class player is playing lots of games.  At that level something like the Chessmaster program can point out your basic errors as well as a coach could.  e.g. principals of opening a chess game, basic tactics, and the like.

     A GM coach would run $75-100 an hour or more.  A lesser title and you might get down to $25 an hour.  Lets say you meet with a coach for an hour, once a week for a year ($1300), subtract a few holidays and it'll still be $1000+.  If you wanted to make master by a certain date, this may be worth it.  It's not so much the cost, but that if you're looking for minimum competency, coach vs no coach will be little difference to the end result.  The homework and guidance the coach will give is standard and easy enough to find.

 

Self taught -
     Playing games, reviewing them with Chessmaster, and a few books.  For less than half the cost (>$1000) you can get Chessmaster and a few good books.  Chessmaster 10K is $15 on amazon.  I would recommend a few books out of Seriwan's Winning Chess series.  Winning Chess Strategies, Winning Chess Tactics, and Winning Chess Endings The combined cost is $75-85, and it will take you less than 6 months to work through them.  Remember at least 50% of your study time should be devoted to playing actual games and reviewing them.  Next order of importance is solving tactical puzzles.  Last is getting through those 3 books, which I'm guessing would seem like light reading anyway.

     6 months later, now you can split your time between drilling tactics, playing games, and one or two more books.  I would recommend something like Chess Master vs Chess Amateur and then tackle the classic Modern Chess Strategy (by Pachman).  Combined cost of $25.  Do this and review your games in Chessmaster for the next 6 months and you would definitely be competent.  Of course depending on your natural ability, seriousness of study, etc etc you could be anywhere from crappy to master level so I wouldn't promise any ability, but I'd guess 80% of adult beginner players who did this at 10hrs/week would end up in the 1300-1400 USCF** range, certainly better than 99% of 8 year olds

 

-------------------------

Of course a membership on this site has many benefits as well.  You can check them out vs the different costs here.  I would be interested in videos / chess mentor / and the computer workout (note, not the play vs computer, "little chess partner")

You may also find Heisman's page interesting.  "NM Dan Heisman authors the award-winning Novice Nook columnist, aimed at improving adults ." (Wiki)  What I linked simply has a lot of guidelines, principals, and tidbits.  At the top you'll see a few good points under the "Improving/Learning" category.

 

** While other's will correctly note there is no conversion between types of ratings, as a rough estimate I would put the average 1300-1400 USCF player at 1600-1700 turn-based chess.com.


Thank you for the time and thought you clearly put into this. Your advice and reasoning sounds very plausible to me, I think you have knocked some sense back into my head. To be honest, chessmaster had not occured to me. I have chessmaster 10, and used to play it often, I will take your advice and do so more frequently (I used to, as a rule, play at least 2 games a day). I would say about 75% of the chess games I play (and this is a conservative esimate), are played on my chess computers.

 

As far as chess.com membership, I have been a premium subscriber in the past (generally, when I have the time to play chess, I do subscribe- diamond membership. I think the videos alone are worth the cost. Although there are other tactics servers on the web, I like chess.com's most. The interface is very clean). I do plan to resubscribe sometime next month.

Avatar of ColdCoffee
ChessMarkstheSpot wrote:

I'm backing orangehonda on the Chessmaster advice.

I've been playing on Chessmaster for years but only recently have I truly gotten deadly serious about chess. I study 3-5 hours a day with several different books but I have switched from CM to Fritz 12 for my play. But Chessmaster was a huge help to me and I find myself improving every day. The more you play, the better you'll get, and both programs annotate and analyze pretty well. All it takes is steady devotion, a strong will, and a lot of patience, which you have from almost finishing a Master's degree. Good luck. 


Thank you, its good to know that Fritz is working for you. When I do start playing in tournaments, I would like to get either Fritz or Rybka for analysis. I will start CM tomorrow morning before I start work.

Avatar of ColdCoffee
Blackadder wrote:

I would largely agree with Orangehonda's advice in post #2, if you want game analysis just post them, thats the entire point of a chess community: everyone helps everyone out. That said, most of my topics go rather unloved :( 

Also there are plenty of free resources about the place if you look for it: http://www.chessvideos.tv/ has plenty of chess lectures, youtube also has its fair share of decent chess videos, the user "Kingcrusher" comes to mind. 


I also have an account on the FCIS (Free chess internet server), there is an analysis chain there that people can use, although I have never tried it. Sometimes I like to mess around on free tactics servers as well. Here is one I use most:

http://chess.emrald.net/

I do not believe I have been to chessvideos.tv, I will check that out, thank you.

Avatar of ColdCoffee
davepacker wrote:

if you dont want to gat checkmated by some 8 year old, spend a few hours on http://chesstempo.com/chess-tactics.html.


I have never seen this site! Thank you!

Avatar of ColdCoffee
RDR75 wrote:

I have no advice on whether you should get coaching or not, and I certainly agree that it is expensive. Also, a local coach would be far better than an online coach.

However, if you want to find a good online coach, follow these links:

http://www.chess.com/members/view/TigerLilov

www.tigerlilov.com


This is one of the two main coaches that I was strongly considering, just based on doing a google search.

Avatar of ColdCoffee
nimzo5 wrote:

I like NM Reb's point, chess progress tends to go in stages and at some point you are going to get stuck. At those points a teacher can be very handy in making a breakthrough.

If you have a year and 10 hours a week to devote to it. Simple. Play and study your games. Can you travel and play otb once a month for 4-6 games? If so that is ideal. If not arrange to play someone about 200 rating points better than you regularly. If you play g/45 2-4x a week and study your games you will get stronger. When you are even strength with your opponent- find a new one. If you have to pay em 5-10 bucks to play you. The key is your facing someone just strong enough to challenge you for the full 45min.

Chess improvement isn't nearly so much about knowledge as about gaining skill at handling positions you are not familiar with.


I appreaciate your perspective. Most of the time I play on my chess computers. We have a chess club here in the county that is very good. I have been unable to attend because of time commitments but this is yet another excuse to make it a higher priority. The people there (based on the one meeting I did make), are very helpful and more than willing to help you improve (I believe at least one member is at least a national master).

None the less, those club players blow my mind, both with their knowledge and their humility with growing players like myself.

Avatar of ColdCoffee

@ NM Tonydal:

" The whole thing sounds a bit trendy and high-falutin' to me anyway...like life coaches (whatever the heck that is)."

He he, life coaches are "therapists" without any credentials (IMHO).

Based on peoples' advice, I think I am going to do just what you are suggesting. If I feel that I need a professional coach down the road, it seems that they are not hard to find, and not going away any time soon.

Avatar of ColdCoffee
tonydal wrote:

And of course you can always post your games here for discussion.


I'll be sure to do that in the future.

Avatar of orangehonda
ColdCoffee wrote:

My educational background is in Mathematics (I dont remember if I said that before). My experience in chess thus far is that advancing in chess seems to be a lot like advancing in Mathematics. There are periods where you are conceptually stagnant and see little progress, then suddenly something clicks and a whole array of problems become very simple for you. I have had this experience in chess, studying tactics. I can solve the same type of tactical puzzle 50 times, then one day- the point of the puzzle just clicks and I understand.

 

In Math, advanced ideas are built up on fundanmental ideas, often times when we have trouble with the big ideas, it is not because we are stupid- or even that the advanced idea is particularly hard- often it is simply a matter of having missed a fundamental idea which is the real key.


This is interesting to me.  I've started some math classes recently and hadn't made that connection yet.  I just can't understand something one day, then a day or two later it's almost so easy as to be obvious!  Nothing fancy like a math major though ;) I'm mostly re-learning what I went through in high school.

In chess there's a quote I came across that reflects this, "true chess understanding starts at 50 points below your rating"  Commenting on the relative perspective many players can have -- that anyone more than 50 points below their strength seems to not have a grasp on an array of fairly easy concepts... forgetting that these concepts were once impossibly difficult for ourselves -- sometimes just a month ago heh.

Avatar of chessroboto
ColdCoffee wrote:
Reb wrote:

Unless you have plenty of money to pay a coach/teacher/trainer I think you should just work on your own until you find that you have reached a point that you no longer make progress working on your own.


This is very valuable advice.


Kasparov himself said that the best lesson that he learned from the Botvinnik School of Chess was the discipline to study by one's self. Botvinnik only met his pupils once or twice in a year. The rest of the course was done through distance learning and involved endless homework exercises and self-study for game analysis and openings.

Avatar of chessroboto
ColdCoffee wrote:
Based on peoples' advice, I think I am going to do just what you are suggesting. If I feel that I need a professional coach down the road, it seems that they are not hard to find, and not going away any time soon.

I just realized the need to be specific with your original post: Do you need a chess tutor, a chess coach or just self-study?

1. The benefits of studying by yourself has been mentioned enough times already, and you've decided to do that already.

2. When will you need a chess coach? I normally hear about them when someone is preparing for chess tournaments and matches. Players who have made competitive chess as a career or profession need their guidance, advice and manpower for match preparation. 

3. When do you go to a chess tutor? Probably when casual players get stumped with games against humans and computers, and cannot seem to find the answer from slightly stronger players, books, computers or the internet. You may  eventually find it yourself, but paying a tutor for a one-time session to focus on your particular weaknesses can save you a lot of time and avoid frustration.

In short, study by yourself but do not be afraid to pay a chess tutor when you need it. Cool

Avatar of ColdCoffee
chessroboto wrote:
ColdCoffee wrote:
Based on peoples' advice, I think I am going to do just what you are suggesting. If I feel that I need a professional coach down the road, it seems that they are not hard to find, and not going away any time soon.

I just realized the need to be specific with your original post: Do you need a chess tutor, a chess coach or just self-study?

1. The benefits of studying by yourself has been mentioned enough times already, and you've decided to do that already.

2. When will you need a chess coach? I normally hear about them when someone is preparing for chess tournaments and matches. Players who have made competitive chess as a career or profession need their guidance, advice and manpower for match preparation. 

3. When do you go to a chess tutor? Probably when casual players get stumped with games against humans and computers, and cannot seem to find the answer from slightly stronger players, books, computers or the internet. You may  eventually find it yourself, but paying a tutor for a one-time session to focus on your particular weaknesses can save you a lot of time and avoid frustration.

In short, study by yourself but do not be afraid to pay a chess tutor when you need it.


I like the distinction.

I do not nessasarily plan to make competetive chess a career in the same sense as Susan Polgar and other GMs. I would like to attain a NM title, anything past that would be nice but I am not going to put other aspects of my life on hold for it or even work toward it at all. So, I do want to get into tournament chess- but as a hobby at best.

Why am I considering a coach/tutor? Partially to prepare for entering tournament play, and partially because self study has one major disadvantage- sometimes you do not know you are doing something wrong until someone tells you that you are doing something wrong. Another reason, thinking from a college experience persepctive, is that one major advantage to having a teacher/tutor/coach over self learning is that that teacher's thought process regarding chess can be conveyed to you. Often times (in Math and in Chess), there are many way of thinking about the same thing- some better than others. Experience can tell you which perspective is correct- a teacher can help you discern this.

I am a firm believer in self-study and self-learning, but I also know the power of learning another person's thought process on something. After all, what is the point of going to college? Only part of the point is learning the actual knowledge- the vast majority of it is learning a mindset, and information processing strategy (IMHO).

So in short, my motivations were a linear combination of both #2 and #3 (bad math joke).

Avatar of chessroboto

I wanted to recommend this book for people who choose self-study first:

Studying Chess Made Easy by Andrew Soltis

Consider it as the most up-to-date manual or guidebook to learn how to become stronger in chess and is backed by the experience of a reputable chess writer.

If you read the few Amazon reviews, you will notice the general feeling of "I wish that I had something like this when I was starting out with chess years ago." I share their sentiments.

There will always be lists and forum threads on what books and materials to read, study and master, but this is one of those books that explains to you HOW to study any of the materials.

EDIT the EDIT: In your world, think of it as a Math course curriculum outline that has personal notes from each of the professors on WHAT they expect you should learn and HOW you could learn it best. Of course, one can argue that everyone has a different way of learning, but this book is just a guide and NOT a law.

For me, this is not spoonfeeding; rather, this is being EFFICIENT for a self-taught casual player. Wink

Avatar of ozzie_c_cobblepot
ColdCoffee wrote:

So in short, my motivations were a linear combination of both #2 and #3 (bad math joke).


I don't see how it's a joke - to me this is a normal way of talking.

Avatar of ColdCoffee
chessroboto wrote:

I wanted to recommend this book for people who choose self-study first:

Studying Chess Made Easy by Andrew Soltis

Consider it as the most up-to-date manual or guidebook to learn how to become stronger in chess and is backed by the experience of a reputable chess writer.

If you read the few Amazon reviews, you will notice the general feeling of "I wish that I had something like this when I was starting out with chess years ago." I share their sentiments.

There will always be lists and forum threads on what books and materials to read, study and master, but this is one of those books that explains to you HOW to study any of the materials.

EDIT: In your world, think of it as a Math course curriculum outline that has personal notes from each of the professors on WHAT they expect you should learn and the HOW you could best way to learn it. Of course, one can argue that everyone has a different way of learning, but this book is just a guide and NOT a law.

For me, this is not spoonfeeding; rather, this is being EFFICIENT for a self-taught casual player.


AWESOME! Thank you! I am glad somebody wrote a book like this!! I am at amazon.com right now!

Avatar of chessroboto
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
ColdCoffee wrote:

So in short, my motivations were a linear combination of both #2 and #3 (bad math joke).


I don't see how it's a joke - to me this is a normal way of talking.


Linear combination of Y and Z. The context is a system of linear equations with variables X, Y, Z. Wink

I was just playing with the words, so I could be wrong.

Avatar of ColdCoffee
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
ColdCoffee wrote:

So in short, my motivations were a linear combination of both #2 and #3 (bad math joke).


I don't see how it's a joke - to me this is a normal way of talking.


People use the term "linear combination" outside of technical disciplines?

Avatar of ColdCoffee
chessroboto wrote:
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
ColdCoffee wrote:

So in short, my motivations were a linear combination of both #2 and #3 (bad math joke).


I don't see how it's a joke - to me this is a normal way of talking.


Linear combination of Y and Z. The context is a system of linear equations with variables X, Y, Z.

I was just playing with the words, so I could be wrong.


If X and Y are two vectors a linear combination of X and Y is aX + bY where a and b are scalars(numbers). So its mathspeak for take a little bit of X and add it to a little bit of Y. This idea can certainly be applied to systems of equations (after all, linear equations are in fact vectors).

Avatar of chessroboto

Talk about making the analogy more complicated! Yell

But what about the representation for "#1"? In my example, the system had three-variables. How would you put that into your example?

EDIT: I was considering that you would use "t" for "time", but that would turn your equation in an integral and would work against your chosen variables as well. With your idea of using two-demensional vectors, we would then bring the argument to the realm of quantum mechanics. Sorry, bad physics joke. Tongue out I'll stop now.