Magnus Carlsen is an embarrassment

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Bereket000

Engren wrote:

Embarrassment  to these forums are people, who are posting threads with title like this. One could argue with his decision and motives, some GMs would continue fight for win from this position (Fischer, Kasparov) but calling number 1 chess player in the world (arguably in conversation of being GOAT of the game of chess) embarrassment is beyond ridiculous. At some point he had a chance of big flank attack, but opted for safer option, and in final position there were no continuation where black could achieve breakthrough without taking BIG risk (possibility of losing game and match without second chance). It was clearly strategic decision, and we get to see how it works out real soon. More than that we get to see more games of this 2 great players!

One could also argue, that Caruana also "being" chicken at one point getting slightly better position, but few times playing passive moves and in result getting inferior position as white. Some people are delusional and don`t realize the pressure of playing World Championship game (especially last game) there human beings playing the game not machines and stakes are EXTREMELY high. Some people take risks go "balls to the walls" some people choose safer approach. It`s all about personality, not that so-called "heart of champion" crap.  Guy has been undisputed world champion for 5 years, defended his title 2 times and for sure he knows a thing or 2 how to win few games of chess and when it`s good idea to take a step back and prepare for next games ahead.

thank you!!! one sane person

BonTheCat
OldPatzerMike wrote:

Watching Carlsen during the last several games, I get the impression that he is not himself. Maybe he is ill, maybe exhausted, or maybe he is just burned out on chess right now, but for whatever reason he doesn't seem to have much energy. That low energy level is the only explanation I can think of for his bizarre draw offer today. Sure, the shorter playoff time controls favor him, but so did his position today. Why not end it when it's right in his grasp instead of heading into territory where he's only favored? I think Magnus is being affected by something beyond his control. 

I think you're 100% right, there. Magnus' sister Ellen has said that she thinks Carlsen will retire from chess should he lose the match. Whether that's the case or not clearly remains to be seen, but for a long time (since before he became World Champion), I've had the feeling that Magnus won't have the motivation to continue to play chess for much longer than maybe age 30. He's now been the World Champion for four years, and the last couple of years haven't been desperately successful for him, at least not compared to the 3 or 4 years prior to that. His play feels a little bit stale, or rather his competitors have upped their game, and it's now time for Carlsen to do that to his own game. Has he got the energy to do it?

staples13
d0gofch3ss wrote:
staples13 wrote:

Magnus Carlsen is an absolute joke. The man has absolutely no heart whatsoever. 

Tie score going into the final game of the World Chess Championship and he gets a big advantage and instead of trying to convert it offers a draw. Where’s the competitive drive? Where’s the belief in himself? Can you imagine Fischer or Kasparov offering a draw in that position?

Just disgusting behavior by a reigning world champion. No respect for competition whatsoever. I hope Caruana destroys him in the tiebreak. It would serve him right. 

I have given my thoughts, and  now it’s your turn chess.com. Was this the most disgusting behavior by a reigning champion in world chess championship history?

Ok, so what are you trying to say?

'Big advantage' If Magnus thought that his advantage was big enough, then he wouldn't have offered a draw. In the press conference, he specifically stated that he couldn't really find a way to convert the position, and if he did, he said that it would be too risky.

Do you think he wants to play for the title, or play for the chess world's entertainment? If you were the defending world champ, would you start with the Grob or Na3? Magnus obviously thought his position, though better, wasn't enough for a win. 

 

'Competitive drive' 'Belief in himself' 'disgusting behavior' You end up first talking about self-confidence and competitive drive, then calling it disgusting behavior. How is this in any way relevant?

 

Also on your post about Magnus getting a lifetime ban, it has become obvious that it is not because of the draw offer that you hate Magnus, but because of your love for Caruana. He deserves a lifetime ban for offering a draw? You are talking nonsense. Don't start whinging just because whoever you support isn't going to win.

No I didn’t say Magnus deserved a lifetime ban for offering a draw in a better position. A posted said that she thought Magnus had colluded with betters to fix the world chess championship, and I said if that’s true then he absolutely deserves a lifetime ban

eswaff

Magnus even said that he wouldn't have played this way if a draw wasn't satisfactory.

ventudius
LadyMisil schreef:

I wonder if money had anything to do with Magnus’s decision?  Would a tiebreak meaning an extension of the World Championship match mean more money for the contestants or chess in general?  Would chess being in the spotlight a little longer add to chess?  Maybe Magnus was ordered by someone to take a “dive”?  If so, Caruna would be forced to not win the title by the same person because to accept a draw, Magnus would need a guarantee to win later on.

Or I am just being waaaay too paranoiac ...

 

Didn't they say in the press conference yesterdays that both players get 5% less because the match is going into tiebreak? So I think monetary motivations are out of the question. Unless I misheard.

ventudius

 Alexander Grischuk called Magnus draw offer in game 12 "the cherry on top" 

LMAO!!

GamboldV
“The Champion needs to win in classical chess to keep his crown. Not just draw or blitz to keep it.”

Great point. This is finally a FIDE problem. Carlsen is just gaming the system and while his decision was not admirable or even very sporting, it was the easy way out. He is now contending to be our new Speed Chess champion. So much for classical.
drmrboss

They tested the final position in CCCC with various engines. 

Most of the games ended as draw! 80% I think. (there will be 56 games )

In this game, even no 1 stockfish cant win as black!

The likely result is that " Black's advantage is not significant enough to forced win" 

 

humanparadox

Is no one gonna mention how Carlsen basically pulled the same stunt from 2016? It's a move of practicality.

staggerlee

We need at least 18 game match format, and if the match ends in a draw, we should just declare two Co-Champions for a year, then have the two seeded into a championship knockout tournament the following year. The classical championship should not be decided by a rapid and blitz. 

blueemu

No.

Since the title of World Chess Champion was first recognized, it has always been the case that the challenger must DEFEAT the incumbent in order to unseat him. A drawn match has always meant that the champion retains his title.

It seems to me the height of narcissistic arrogance that a bunch of untitled patzers would think that they know better and have the right to make changes.

FaceCrusher

I was absolutely THRILLED with the draw. And I'll tell you why. I Really Really Really want Fabiano to win this. I want our first American World Chess Champion in decades. Fabiano was getting murdered in this position, and he was down to 8 minutes vs Magnus's 45, in a position where Magnus was pointing an artillery canon at Caurana's head. I thought FOR SURE it was over. I was dissapointed and pissed. And when this draw came through, Fabiano and US Chess dodged a bullet. Also, on behalf of Magnus, of COURSE everyone here knows it was a "bad draw offer." You are all sitting at home or in the office, comfortble, no one watching you, with nothing to lose, not a dime on the line, all with Sesse and Stockfish telling you the perfect moves, so you "know" what ever player should do. They are sitting there in a fishbowl, the world watching, knowing every move will be studied by children and grandmasters for all of eternity, knowing every win and loss with be immortalized, with over a Million Dollars on the line. They don't have engines there, and they have no idea really what is going to happen. If Magnus didn't see a viable way forward, then no one here can tell me that they would have seen it if they were sitting in Magnus's place.

 

"Magus is a coward" Okay, you guys go beat the world number #2 with the world watching and a million dollars on the line after 11 exhausting games with no engine to tell you the perfect move. You all know it was a bad draw offer because you all had Sesse and Stockfish on your phone or desktop and you had nothing on the line. If you were sitting in the chair with no engine, I promise no one here would know more than Magnus did. You can't evaluate a decision by someone else using premises that apply to you - i.e. - Not tired, You have the engine and no pressure. You have to evaluate decisions based on the premises that apply to the person who made the decision. "But I would NEVER have offered a draw in that position!!" Of course you wouldn't, because Mutha fuckas, you aint NEVER gonna be in a position to offer anything to the world number 2 player in the world championship.

harrissh
A considerable time advantage with a better position. Obviously he could go for at least 10 moves further. This draw approach shows that Magnus is now way near too Alekhine, Lasker, Fisher and Kasparov. At Alekhine time no chess engine but brilliant combinations in WCC. At the time chess means brilliancy and not commercialism.
FaceCrusher
drmrboss wrote:

They tested the final position in CCCC with various engines. 

Most of the games ended as draw! 80% I think. (there will be 56 games )

In this game, even no 1 stockfish cant win as black!

The likely result is that " Black's advantage is not significant enough to forced win" 

 


Wait a minute.

You're telling me that all these armchair quarterbacks here are wrong, and that Magnus Carlsen, THE WORLD CHESS CHAMPION saw something they didn't and was right all along?

No way! 

JollyBishop
staples13 wrote:

Magnus Carlsen is an absolute joke. The man has absolutely no heart whatsoever. 

Tie score going into the final game of the World Chess Championship and he gets a big advantage and instead of trying to convert it offers a draw. Where’s the competitive drive? Where’s the belief in himself? Can you imagine Fischer or Kasparov offering a draw in that position?

Just disgusting behavior by a reigning world champion. No respect for competition whatsoever. I hope Caruana destroys him in the tiebreak. It would serve him right. 

I have given my thoughts, and  now it’s your turn chess.com. Was this the most disgusting behavior by a reigning champion in world chess championship history?

 

I totally agree. 

x-9525854026

Bring back 24 game format for WCC. All classical games I say.

 

FaceCrusher

Looks like when they are putting it in the engines it is coming out a draw most of the time, so I guess Magnus saw more than the untitled amateurs after all! Maybe that's why he's the world champion and we are on a forum. 

Kjetil_Amanaki

Magnus is not an embarrassment for chess, What he did was simply not take the chance of losing the total match, so he said was better to draw and take the chance in rapid or blitz.

I doubt people here would think differently if you was in Magnus shoes

FaceCrusher
AdrienFran wrote:

Bring back 24 game format for WCC. All classical games I say.

 

The way it was in Fischer's day. 24 games, first to 12, in the event of a 12-12 tie the Champion retains the title. 

staggerlee
blueemu wrote:

No.

Since the title of World Chess Champion was first recognized, it has always been the case that the challenger must DEFEAT the incumbent in order to unseat him. A drawn match has always meant that the champion retains his title.

It seems to me the height of narcissistic arrogance that a bunch of untitled patzers would think that they know better and have the right to make changes.

No.

The format of the World Championship has changed many, many times. The number of games, the frequency, how to handle draws, etc. Finding ways to improve the system is always worthwhile. 

It seems to me the height of narcissistic arrogance that an untitled patzer would think he knew better and have the right to ignore suggested improvements without reasoned argument.