Millionaire Chess 3

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Kingandmate

@Diakonia:

Why does anything related to money or motivated by money have to "ruin" chess?? An exciting and unique event like MCO generates more positive publicity and coverage for chess in general, attracting players who know chess but may not play the game actively and bringing back formerly active players who have been away from the game for a long time.  (What other recent open event in the U.S. has gotten coverage in a full New York Times article?? MCO did.) I'm looking at the positive impact on chess overall, As themaskedbishop has said himself, MCO receives predominantly positive reviews and coverage. Any positive attention and publicity for chess or one of its events in the mainstream media is a good thing. MCO is one of the few chess events during the year that manages to do this, and it is one of the aims of the organizers. This is good for chess OVERALL, not just for MCO! I think this is a crucial point that you and other posters miss when you overly focus on the few flaws of MCO or just the event itself (and its "motivations").

Kingandmate
themaskedbishop wrote:

> couple of other threads on chess.com. <  Hmm, not to beat this into the ground, but what other threads? And really - who cares about chess.com forums? Have you ever seen anything from any of them quoted anywhere? 

Millionaire Chess has had a huge free ride in the chess press since it started over two years ago, including glowing cover stories in Chess Life. I have seen NO criticism of this event, or even a "neutral" review, anywhere, other than from a half dozen anonymous posters in a chat thread on chess.com. 

After the second one, which anyone would have to admit was a mess, there was some coverage of the debacles in Chess Life but the overall tone was still gracious and accommodating, and Amy Lee was given full reign to say whatever she wanted. As for the rest of the chess world - nothing was said as far as I can tell about the sandbagging, the pairings disaster, or Nakamura's 9-move draw. 

Bottom line: Millionaire Chess has been given the royal treatment from the chess world. No one of any authority, player or writer, has had anything but wonderful things to say about it. MC has escaped the frequent and cutting criticism that FIDE, the USCF, or even Continental Chess have often engendered. It's been one long love fest, and the warm fuzzies show no signs of fading.  

 

I understand your perspective and criticisms. Let me attempt to expand on my point of view.

In my view, Millionaire Chess has worked much harder than most chess event organizers to put on a prestigious, exciting, fun, and well-organized event, one that is a real treat for most participants and spectators. You simply need to attend an event such as the North American Open, a nice event in its own right, and MCO to see the big difference in quality and attention to detail. At no other open event in the country does the organizer provide boards, sets, AND chess clocks, for example. And MCO does more than any other event in history, including foreign events and supertournaments, to prevent and detect cheating, including airport-type security scans, even in front of the bathroom area. And its rating rules are the strictest of any chess tournament in history, even though they clearly do not prevent ALL types of sandbagging (trust me, it would have been MUCH worse had the rating rules not been in place!), which is lamentable. The playing hall is gorgeous (for example, MC#2 featured portraits of all the past and current world champions, including women world champions), and the live and colorful commentary on the games each day allows players and spectators/fans alike to appreciate the many exciting games better and join in the excitement, as well as attracting more positive attention from chess fans around the world. And MCO has been trying hard to bring chess to TV. Not all players may appreciate or welcome this change, but there is little doubt that having chess on TV will bring more publicity and coverage in the mainstream for the game/sport and help attract more players, young and older, and grow the chess community in the long term. This would bring more money into chess, among other things, and help budding and strong players with a serious interest in the game actually pursue careers and make some money in chess, such as being a chess coach or teacher, instead of often leaving chess altogether because they feel it's almost impossible to play chess for a living!

You see, MCO is not just about the event itself or making money for Amy and Maurice (and clearly, that hasn't happened so far, yet they are still working hard to make the event more successful every year!). It's also about promoting and elevating chess as a whole, expanding awareness about chess in the mainstream and world as a whole -- this can only be a positive and very good development for chess!

And perhaps the reason that MCO receives almost entirely positive reviews and coverage is that most people do not feel that the few flaws and mishaps in the first two editions detract from the very many things it did well (some of which I have listed above)! No event is perfectly run, and MC#2 was far from perfect. (I was most annoyed with the pairing disaster in the first round, as I was personally affected by it.) However, in my view, MCO deserves most of the praise and positive publicity, as the positives far outweigh the negatives in this case. And I believe that most people can see that Maurice and Amy work REALLY hard throughout the year, harder than most organizers, and have their hearts and intentions in the right place. Of course, this is partly a business for them and they want to make money (and what's wrong with that? they have to do *something* to make money!), but they also want to do good for chess as a whole. Amy could have gone into many other fields or businesses, but she chose chess for a reason (hint: it's not because it's the most profitable!) And Maurice is an intelligent and talented man and chess player who does do and could have been doing many other things or jobs to make money. But he has put his heart and soul into MC for a reason; again, it certainly is not because it's the most profitable business. I think the critics often miss these considerations or misinterpret their intentions and motivations. I wish that you and others can re-examine some of your preconceptions, assumptions, and biases, see and focus more on the positives the event has to offer, and look more at the bigger and long-term picture for chess and how much good that MCO has already done and could do for chess in the future.

Diakonia
Kingandmate wrote:

@Diakonia:

Why does anything related to money or motivated by money have to "ruin" chess?? An exciting and unique event like MCO generates more positive publicity and coverage for chess in general, attracting players who know chess but may not play the game actively and bringing back formerly active players who have been away from the game for a long time.  (What other recent open event in the U.S. has gotten coverage in a full New York Times article?? MCO did.) I'm looking at the positive impact on chess overall, As themaskedbishop has said himself, MCO receives predominantly positive reviews and coverage. Any positive attention and publicity for chess or one of its events in the mainstream media is a good thing. MCO is one of the few chess events during the year that manages to do this, and it is one of the aims of the organizers. This is good for chess OVERALL, not just for MCO! I think this is a crucial point that you and other posters miss when you overly focus on the few flaws of MCO or just the event itself (and its "motivations").

If you have had a good time playing in them, and enjoy the experience then carry on.  I would personally invest the money that tournament would require, and play in multiple other events.  

woton

Kingandmate

 

From what I have read, from a player's perspective, MC is great.  However, it has one major problem.  It cannot attract enough players to pay its bills.  Presently, Amy Lee is a benefactor.  How much longer she will maintain that role is questionable.

Unless MC can figure out how to increase its revenue, it will become another business failure, and the great player experience will become a memory of what might have been.

Kingandmate

@woton:

I predict that this will be the last year for MCO unless they can dramatically increase the number of entries and at least break even financially this year. I am hopeful that the changes they will make this year will accomplish that. I have already given a lot of suggestions and feedback to MC over the last few months on how they can improve the event, make it more attractive to more players, and hopefully start getting a return on their investments. I am very curious to see what they will announce on March 1. I think we, as chess players and fans, should do what we can to support what Amy and Maurice are trying to do to transform and elevate chess. At least they are bold enough to take action and spend a great deal of money to attempt something big and innovative to promote chess better in the mainstream. Not many people in the chess world have such courage, drive, and persistence, and I think they should be applauded for their efforts, whatever MC's failures might have been in putting on the first two tournaments.

Kingandmate
Diakonia wrote:
Kingandmate wrote:

@Diakonia:

Why does anything related to money or motivated by money have to "ruin" chess?? An exciting and unique event like MCO generates more positive publicity and coverage for chess in general, attracting players who know chess but may not play the game actively and bringing back formerly active players who have been away from the game for a long time.  (What other recent open event in the U.S. has gotten coverage in a full New York Times article?? MCO did.) I'm looking at the positive impact on chess overall, As themaskedbishop has said himself, MCO receives predominantly positive reviews and coverage. Any positive attention and publicity for chess or one of its events in the mainstream media is a good thing. MCO is one of the few chess events during the year that manages to do this, and it is one of the aims of the organizers. This is good for chess OVERALL, not just for MCO! I think this is a crucial point that you and other posters miss when you overly focus on the few flaws of MCO or just the event itself (and its "motivations").

If you have had a good time playing in them, and enjoy the experience then carry on.  I would personally invest the money that tournament would require, and play in multiple other events.  

 

I play in many other tournaments throughout the year, but the prizes at most of these tournaments are fairly small. $1000 is a lot of money to me, but I would mostly gladly pay that much money for a chance to win $10,000 to $20,000, as I have a good deal of confidence in my chess skills and ability to improve over time. I don't play chess for money, primarily -- I just love the game -- but I do have to admit that I enter MCO partly because of the possible significant return on my "investment." It's a bit of a gamble, yes, but I live in Las Vegas, a city in which many others have spent far more money gambling and gotten zilch in return lol. Spending $1000 on a chess tournament in which I have a decent chance of winning $5,000 or more seems a much better use of the money and like better odds than putting $1000 in slot machines to me.

Doc_Detroit
Kingandmate wrote:

  $1000 is a lot of money to me, but I would mostly gladly pay that much money for a chance to win $10,000 to $20,000

Living in Las Vegas (as you claim you do) with this kind of mindset must be horrifying.

GamboldV

Kingandmate, these are rather long, passionate, and detailed advocacy postings for someone who suddenlty appeared out of nowhere, just as MC3 was announced, and claims to not be a shill for the MC business.

That you seem to know in advance about changing registration fees, that you claim (several times now) to have the personal ear of the organisers who are "taking your suggestions," tells me that you are not being totally forthcoming about your relationship with MC.  

Your posts are breathless in their adoration of the organizers and in praise of the supremacy of their tournaments, which, despite a lot of positive press everywhere else, have proven to be a VERY mixed bag at best. Save the ad copy for the flyers...your hyperbole is only undermining your already thin credibility on this issue. 

Kingandmate
themaskedbishop wrote:

Kingandmate, these are rather long, passionate, and detailed advocacy postings for someone who suddenlty appeared out of nowhere, just as MC3 was announced, and claims to not be a shill for the MC business.

That you seem to know in advance about changing registration fees, that you claim (several times now) to have the personal ear of the organisers who are "taking your suggestions," tells me that you are not being totally forthcoming about your relationship with MC.  

Your posts are breathless in their adoration of the organizers and in praise of the supremacy of their tournaments, which, despite a lot of positive press everywhere else, have proven to be a VERY mixed bag at best. Save the ad copy for the flyers...your hyperbole is only undermining your already thin credibility on this issue. 

 

I'm going to say this one last time for you and others, themaskedbishop: I do NOT work for MC at all. I do love the event, however, and I am one person among many who sees the many positives the event has to offer. I have already posted on MC before; these are certainly not my first posts on the subject on chess.com. And MC is very responsive to feedback, as long as it's done in a respectful and constructive way (which means that they may not respond very favorably to you). I have given many suggestions in the past on their MC app and in direct mails to the organizers, and they have always read and responded to my emails, as I am sure they do with similar emails from others. (For example, after MC#1, I and others strongly suggested that they change the prize structure, and they did almost exactly what we asked for in MC#2! MC LISTENS to feedback!) I don't KNOW that they will be lowering their entry fee this year, but they have given some strong hints in past emails that they will, in response to my suggestion and, no doubt, comments from others exhorting them to do the same. And some of my posts can be long or detailed because I wish to engage in true argument against some of the critics of the event or company, not a quick dismissal of their points or arguments without providing a detailed and reasoned refutation of their points or any support or arguments for my conclusions and position.

Instead of doing the same with my points and arguments, you are attacking the person making the arguments. This is called an ad hominem attack, and it does not do.

Ciak

I would like to ask a question to people who criticize:  have they never organized a tournament? if yes, which one?

Laskerizer

I have no connection to the tournament aside from being a player in MC2. I found it a very exciting tournament to play in because of the high stakes, while still retaining a fun atmosphere. I hope that moving it to the East Coast within driving distance of major population centers will make it profitable and allow it to continue into the future.

Kingandmate
tucumcari wrote:
Kingandmate wrote:

  $1000 is a lot of money to me, but I would mostly gladly pay that much money for a chance to win $10,000 to $20,000

Living in Las Vegas (as you claim you do) with this kind of mindset must be horrifying.

 I'm not exactly sure what you meant by this. To be clear, I hardly ever gamble in the casinos, even though I live in Las Vegas (and when I do, it is maybe $20 in a slot machine), as I view this as basically just giving money to the casinos (except in a skill card game such as poker, which I don't know). Paying $1000 to enter a high-stakes chess tournament may seem like gambling to some people, but this is a calculated risk I am willing to take, as chess is mostly about skill and experience and not luck and the potential rewards/prizes are definitely worth it. I have much better odds of winning $5000 to $10,000 at an event like Millionaire Chess Open by playing well and keeping my focus and composure than betting $1000 in slot machines.

GamboldV

Ciak sez " I would like to ask a question to people who criticize:  have they never organized a tournament? if yes, which one?"

Hey Ciak! Do you ever go to the movies? Do you tell people if they are good, bad, or so-so? And if you do...have you ever MADE a movie?

Do you vote? Do you have a certain candidate that you think is better than another? And if you do...have you ever RUN for office?

Back to the woodpile you go...

Kingandmate
BettorOffSingle wrote:
Kingandmate wrote:
tucumcari wrote:
Kingandmate wrote:

  $1000 is a lot of money to me, but I would mostly gladly pay that much money for a chance to win $10,000 to $20,000

Living in Las Vegas (as you claim you do) with this kind of mindset must be horrifying.

 I'm not exactly sure what you meant by this. To be clear, I hardly ever gamble in the casinos, even though I live in Las Vegas (and when I do, it is maybe $20 in a slot machine), as I view this as basically just giving money to the casinos (except in a skill card game such as poker, which I don't know). Paying $1000 to enter a high-stakes chess tournament may seem like gambling to some people, but this is a calculated risk I am willing to take, as chess is mostly about skill and experience and not luck and the potential rewards/prizes are definitely worth it. I have much better odds of winning $5000 to $10,000 at an event like Millionaire Chess Open by playing well and keeping my focus and composure than betting $1000 in slot machines.

Because if you just have time to think, you'll beat the other guy who just has time to think?  Musical chairs doesn't work that way.

Your odds on a single visit to any casino can approach 48 percent.

 

Huh? I'm not sure what you mean. Obviously, that is not what *I* meant. I have enough confidence in my chess skills that I know with almost 100% certainty that I can finish in the top half of the field at any major chess tournament (and I have done that more than once now). Of course, it's tougher to finish in a prize-earning place, but there is a decent chance I can accomplish this, too, if I can play at or close to my true potential. Most players who enter a tournament like MCO or the World Open think the same way. Even with the sandbaggers, I have not gotten the impression that it's impossible or very difficult to finish in the money at MCO. In fact, I missed winning a prize in my section at MC#2 by only half a point! I felt that I was stronger than most of my opponents at MC#2 (even if I drew or lost the game through some late mishap or time trouble, as happened in at least two games).

It's safe to say that I have almost zero chance (maybe 0.1%??) of winning $5000 to $10,000 by playing slot machines in a casino by "investing" $1000. I would estimate my chances of winning a similar amount in prize money at MCO at maybe 5 to 10% (and much higher for winning a lower prize). I believe that's a calculated risk I am certainly willing to take.

neverherebefore

Your fee is your rating in dollars. So let it be done.

Kingandmate

@BettorOffSingle:

That is your opinion only. A good chess player, in any given tournament, can outperform his rating, sometimes significantly. I just won a small tournament at my local chess club in which I defeated a 1900 AND a 2100 on the same day (about a 2200 performance rating in the tournament), and I was rated about 1600 prior to that. Remember that *someone* must win the top section prize at a tournament, whether he or she is that good or not. If every player thought the way you did, then the winner would probably just be an average player. Organized chess serves many different beneficial functions for the players, only one of which is to offer the chance to win big prizes. You "retired" from chess for your own reasons -- that's great -- but don't pronounce a blanket judgment on others and what they might do with their time and money just because you don't find it worthwhile.

mdinnerspace

What a God Send! MC provides the board, clock and pieces! Otherwise I'd be unable to attend. Spent my last $1000 bucks on the entry. I'll be sleeping under the freeway bridge. When I win 1st place I will buy my own vinyl board and plastic pieces.

Ciak

The new entry fee is 549 Dollars

Laskerizer

Playing in the tournament is OPTIONAL, so being offended by its existence seems odd. Let those of us who enjoy the tournament play in it. If people don't think it's a good deal they won't get enough entries and it will fade away. But if it attracts lots of players, why should the people who don't play in it care one way or the other?

mdinnerspace

Now that it is approaching the announcement date for the "new and improved" format for MC3, those that stand to financially gain will be jumping out of the woodwork to promote the event.