Pinned Knight Cannot Move

Sort:
Avatar of Lagomorph
TronsGuitar wrote:
 Take for example a pinned knight. Who is protecting a Rook as well. I propose that whenever a piece is pinned, ie.. cannot move or their king would be mated, that whatever other pieces they are protecting can be taken by the opposing King. The rules say that the opposing king cannot take one of the protected pieces because that would be moving them into check. However, I believe a King should be able to take the 'protected' piece because the pinned piece is unable to protect their King and other pieces at the exact same time

Complete rubbish.

Avatar of Lagomorph
TronsGuitar wrote:
 

 

You are correct. I am talking about an absolute pin. I propose that if a piece is absolutely pinned... cannot move otherwise the king would be in check, then any potential moves are invalid, as long as the absolute check exists. 

With black to move the king should be able to take the rook, because the white knight is powerless to move because it would cause the king to be in check.

Perhaps you can explain why you want to allow one side, black in your example, to be able to move into check, but not allow white to do the same....ie NxK ?

Avatar of Optimissed
mpaetz wrote:

     In the ancient warfare that was the model for the origin of chess, two monarchs were quarrelling over possession of a town or watershed or trade route or whatever. Kingdoms were considered the personal property of the king. In a battle, should a king be killed or captured, the quarrel was settled. For example, as recently as 1805 at the battle of Austerlitz, when the Russians and Austrians beat back the French attacks on both sides of the battlefield and started chasing them, Napoleon's hidden mass of troops overwhelmed the now-undermanned center position, destroyed the Russian Imperial Guards, captured Emperor Francis of Austria and sent Tsar Alexander of Russia fleeing for his life. The Russian and Austrian armies fled in panic and the war was won.

     Likewise in the position pictured here, should the black king capture the white rook, the white knight will kill the black king and the war will be over.

  

Napoleon was quite good at manoeuvring troops. I like things like old letters and whatnot. They can be really interesting. Somewhere I have a letter written by a German General to (I think it might have been) the King of Prussia, telling him that he was concerned about a forthcoming battle because he was pretty sure there were French troops in a nearby forest at night, engaging in a flanking manoeuvre. This was in Belgium, if I remember right. It was sent back in haste, to try to either get reinforcements or a change of plan. But the German General duly had to meet the French on the battlefield the next day and got pretty much wiped out.

Avatar of mpaetz

     Of course Napoleon had the whole thing planned in advance. The wing attacks were carried out by smaller bodies of troops who were expected to be repulsed and tempt large masses of troops to pursue them, hoping to surround the French center but instead opening the way for the decisive counter. Once the Emperors were seen to be fleeing the tables were turned on both flanks and the small bodies of French troops routed their "pursuers".  The curious thing is that Napoleon printed about 30,000 explanations of this plan and distributed copies to his army the night before the battle but not one copy fell into enemy hands.

Avatar of Optimissed

It would have been too late, judging by the failed effort of the Prussian General to obtain a change of plan. In the end, Napoleon's good luck ran out, at Waterloo, where the tables were turned. Here, the British and Allies withstood intense attacks and the Prussians broke through on the other flank and routed the French. I should dig out that letter I told you of and find out its exact date.

Avatar of Arnaut10

Chess has a perfect set of rules that should not be touched. If what are you saying is good enough for a change then why are we not seeing more chess players bringing that point up? I don't think there is a game as fair as chess is.

Avatar of Ubik42
“Hey you can’t move that knight. your king would be in check!”

“What do you mean? I have your king in hand. This game is over. Set the pieces up for the next game, loser. “
Avatar of eric0022
mpaetz wrote:

     In the ancient warfare that was the model for the origin of chess, two monarchs were quarrelling over possession of a town or watershed or trade route or whatever. Kingdoms were considered the personal property of the king. In a battle, should a king be killed or captured, the quarrel was settled. For example, as recently as 1805 at the battle of Austerlitz, when the Russians and Austrians beat back the French attacks on both sides of the battlefield and started chasing them, Napoleon's hidden mass of troops overwhelmed the now-undermanned center position, destroyed the Russian Imperial Guards, captured Emperor Francis of Austria and sent Tsar Alexander of Russia fleeing for his life. The Russian and Austrian armies fled in panic and the war was won.

     Likewise in the position pictured here, should the black king capture the white rook, the white knight will kill the black king and the war will be over.

  

 

Interesting history...

Avatar of vasiapatov
blueemu wrote:
TronsGuitar wrote:
This question is based upon the rules of Chess and why I think they should be changed. It has to do with pinned knights, or more to the point, any pinned piece. 8/3k4/3R4/4r3/4N3/4K3/8/8 b KQkq - 0 1 Take for example a pinned knight. Who is protecting a Rook as well. I propose that whenever a piece is pinned, ie.. cannot move or their king would be mated, that whatever other pieces they are protecting can be taken by the opposing King. The rules say that the opposing king cannot take one of the protected pieces because that would be moving them into check. However, I believe a King should be able to take the 'protected' piece because the pinned piece is unable to protect their King and other pieces at the exact same time. That is why other pieces can take the so called 'protected' pieces. So why can't an opposing King take a 'protected' piece? Whar would happened if the rules changed to allow this?

Who would lose their King first?

As @blueemu said, "Who would lose their king first?"
This is the simplest solution to this problem, and my interpretation for why the rules are so. Let's assume for a moment that the objective of the game is to "capture your enemy king" rather than to "give checkmate". In this case, black would lose their king first, because after they capture the white rook with their king, the white knight will capture the black king. It doesn't matter that on the next move that the black rook can capture the white king, because the game is already over at that point.
However, as we know the objective of the game isn't to "capture the enemy king" but it is to deliver checkmate. However (disregarding stalemate), the definition of perfect play is exactly the same for both scenarios. So the game of chess that we all play, we play as if we are ultimately trying to capture the enemy king.
So to answer your question, this is why the current (and longstanding) rules about pins/legal moves make total sense, and why they shouldn't be changed.

Avatar of magipi
vasiapatov wrote:

As @blueemu said, "Who would lose their king first?"

That was 2 years ago.

Is their any reason to resurrect this thread from the dead? There is a similar topic every week anyway.