Reducing the number of draws

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Toucantime

Too many draws, that plagues chess competition in many aspects. Especially when  the rate of draws goes to 75% and above, at highest level: it kills the public's interrest.

 

Many ideas and suggestions have been made, that proved not good enough (forbidding draw proposals before move 30, etc).

 

And this is where I do propose an idea, based on the stats: Chessbase Megadatabase (about 7.000.000 games), shows a ratio of 53.6% points to white, and 46.4% to black.

 

Let's then have it so: win = 1 point, loss = 0 point, draw with white = 0.46 points, draw with black = 0.54 point.

 

An other advantage of the idea, is that it'd rend many tie tools (such as Bucholz, etc) that are never totally fair, useless.

 

What you say?

Bullet6422

Perhaps 0.4 and 0.6?

Toucantime
Bullet6422 wrote:

Perhaps 0.4 and 0.6?

If we want it rounder, then 0.55 and 0.45, but why not make it fair? Computers do the math anyway.

 

Now, a possible issue, would be to know if it'd be applied to the Elo rating changes or not...

tooWEAKtooSL0W

I don't think this would work well. The numbers are too similar to 0.5, I doubt people would care much.

 

I think a good solution is the one that has been implemented in a few tournaments where wins are worth 3 points and a draw 1. That way, if two players score 5/10, but one of them had 5 wins and 5 losses while the other had 10 draws, the player with the more decisive games will have more tournament points.

Toucantime
tooWEAKtooSL0W wrote:

I don't think this would work well. The numbers are too similar to 0.5, I doubt people would care much.

 

I think a good solution is the one that has been implemented in a few tournaments where wins are worth 3 points and a draw 1. That way, if two players score 5/10, but one of them had 5 wins and 5 losses while the other had 10 draws, the player with the more decisive games will have more tournament points.

Yes they would care, when a draw pushes you forcefully back from 3rd to 4th place instead of having you "3rd-4th even" and wait for the Bucholz coin flip regardless of the fact you or your opponent played white one time more or one time less than you.

 

It would, in average, push the player leading white, to take more risks. Riskier play induces a higher rate of decisive outcomes.

macer75
Icare001 wrote:
tooWEAKtooSL0W wrote:

I don't think this would work well. The numbers are too similar to 0.5, I doubt people would care much.

 

I think a good solution is the one that has been implemented in a few tournaments where wins are worth 3 points and a draw 1. That way, if two players score 5/10, but one of them had 5 wins and 5 losses while the other had 10 draws, the player with the more decisive games will have more tournament points.

Yes they would care, when a draw pushes you forcefully back from 3rd to 4th place instead of having you "3rd-4th even" and wait for the Bucholz coin flip regardless of the fact you or your opponent played white one time more or one time less than you.

 

It would, in average, push the player leading white, to take more risks. Riskier play induces a higher rate of decisive outcomes.

So all of a sudden, getting 5 whites and 4 blacks in a round robin tournament might be a disadvantage.

Toucantime

Well, not if the ratio is respected...

evert823

My idea on this:

The first player to give check is declared to win the game in otherwise dead drawn positions. For example, white is the first to put black into check. The game goes on according to normal rules, both players can try to win by mating the other king, but a dead drawn position is reached. White is declared winner of the game.

Toucantime

evert823

 

Erm... White wins or first to do check?

 

In both cases, it'd alterate chess in such a way, it could be then a variant of it, not real chess imo.

macer75
Icare001 wrote:

evert823

 

Erm... White wins or first to do check?

 

In both cases, it'd alterate chess in such a way, it could be then a variant of it, not real chess imo.

I think the idea is that white wins because he was the first to give check. At first I thought Evert meant that the first player to give check once the game reaches a dead drawn position wins, but it seems that he means the first player to have given check in the game, regardless of when it was given.

Alternatively, another idea might be to declare the side with more time on his clock the winner. Of course, that would also involve completely changing the rules of chess, which might be somewhat controversial.

Toucantime

Duh, I think my "ratio draw points" idea is yet better tongue.png It would not change the game of chess itself, and it's still open if the idea would be introduced solely for counting match/tournament points (and hence determine raking), or if rating changes would be affected.

evert823

What I meant: the first to give check in the entire game, gets the advantage that a dead drawn position in the end is declared a win for that player. Although, after the first check, the victim of that check could still play on and try to win by normal means, like attacking and giving mate.

MoveNotToMove

i would simply give 0 points to draw 

MoveNotToMove

or maybe 0 to draw as white and something ( 1/4 or 1/2 ) as black

ChrisWainscott
We can call the ratio draw points idea "The Berlin is here to stay" plan since Black would be enticed to play solid and boring.

The rules are fine as is.
Toucantime
ChrisWainscott wrote:
We can call the ratio draw points idea "The Berlin is here to stay" plan since Black would be enticed to play solid and boring.

The rules are fine as is.

As if playing e4+Spanish was the only option for white... What-e-ver...