Relationship between Chess rating and I.Q?

So you're saying even chess calculation is not truly based on visualization? My intuition would tend to disagree, but maybe.

I opine creative visualization is involved higly,cause Chess player try create future situations visualized for the first time in the mind. Many times as flashes and perhaps other times, more intuitive and semi-conscious depending of the urgency and /or the stress of the situation

ummmm did I accidentally bring this whole forum back to life

If a football player receives the ball and isn't facing the goal and wants to turn and shoot, is it correct to say they have to "visualize" the goal because otherwise how will they know where it is? Do they visualize the goalkeeper and the grass? No, not at all really, they just know where the goals are, it can be called spatial awareness. Same in chess - if a file becomes opened good players don't need to have a continual visualization of this for the rest of their calculation, they just know or have an awareness that this file is opened and all that that entails. They also count up attackers vs defenders of a piece (while checking carefully for intermezzos), and do plenty of other logical and heuristic analysis. Visualization of an actual position is an incredibly hard and effortful thing. I would even go so far as to say visualization is the last thing you want to be doing.

Also think about this - noone "visualizes" the entire board all at once even when having full sight of the board. You look at one segment of the board, that's it. The human brain only views a few pieces at a time. Nobody just looks straight at and perceives the entire board all at once - when you look at super gms their eyes are constantly darting from one part of the board to the other. You have to remember that one diagonal or file is "hot" as in the opponent is attacking on it even when in full sight of the board. That's why I think even super grandmasters may be a slightly more vulnerable to long-range pieces that hit from another side of the board, eg. Kasparov's famous blunder against Anand where he was looking at one side of the board and "forgot" about the rook attack.

It is a mix of intuitive sub-conscious spatial processes and conscious visualization, role of which depends on the context. A calculation of a long line I would intuitively say requires more of actual visualization to keep track of each moving part relative to each other. Most of the time intuitive (spatial) understanding would play a larger role compared to rigorous calculation, but I'm sure that varies depending on the strengths and styles of the players.

We should stick with the definitions put forth by C.S. Peirce:

There are 3 kinds of sign : the ICON, the INDEX and the SYMBOL.

• from philosopher Charles S. Peirce in the late 19th century.
• a sign is a stimulus pattern that has a meaning.
• The difference is in how the meaning happens to be attached to (or associated with) the pattern.

https://legacy.cs.indiana.edu/~port/teach/103/sign.symbol.short.html

ICON

The icon is the simplest since it is a pattern that physically resembles what it `stands for'.

• A picture of your face is an icon of you.
• The little square with a picture of a printer on your computer screen is an icon for the print function.
• The picture of a smoking cigarette with a diagonal bar across the picture is an icon that directly represents `Smoking? Don't do it' (at least it does with appropriate cultural experience).
• Your cat is preparing to jump up on your lap, so you put out the palm of your hand over the cat.
• Words can be partly iconic too. Bow-wow, splash and hiccup. And the bird called the whippoorwill. (These are also called onomotopoetic words.)
• Also words can be pronounced iconically:
  • His nose grew wa-a-a-ay out to here.
  • Julia Childes grabbed that carrot and went CHOP CHOP CHOP CHOP.
  • Aw, poor widdow ba-by!

Chess is work and dedication. The best are not the ones with big iq

I think you've put this well and my thinking does align with this quite a bit. It depends how you view intelligence - It may be thought as a potential resource, that confidence as in certain neurotransmitters allow you to access. If you consider intelligence as your output capability at a given moment then, yes, you have to consider confidence instrisic to intelligence. It certainly affects your score in an IQ test. Some may have be more stable performers than others. I tend to separate IQ score and intelligence though.

My (and your) visualization may be inaccurate, while Morphy's or Kasparov's is far more accurate, giving them some advantage over us.

Representing a situation in the mind as an image is a form of visualization. The term may be popular today in relation to meditations and coaching, but I'm being pragmatic here.Personally I have tend to visualisations naturally.You can tell me a story and my mind created images as a movie.Im naturally sinestesic also.I give in my mind collors to the days of weeks and mounths,as example.

Philosophy and others schools can use words in another sense.As example the word PLURALISM have a meaning in philosophy other about political ,social and others

I kind of agree, but not so definitively. It is a measure of some aspects of intelligence that are relatively easy to measure. Other things that can be considered part of intelligence have been measured independently. For example, emotional intelligence. Here is a list of aspects of intelligence outside of those measured in IQ tests, some of which can be measured fairly well.

In the 1920s the French Chess Olympiad team was given a variety of mental acuity tests. Alekhine was on the team, as well as artist/chessplayers Marcel Duchamp and Man Ray. The only areas in which all those strong players scored in the 99th percentile were visualization and visual memory.

Optimissed : Clearly you say "I don't think. I can accept your subjetive point of view.Im being pragmatic in chat means. About pluralism /Philosophy,appologyes.I want to amply my point and respond you soon.Now is my time of bit exercise.Im not trying to gain time to study neither to web /AI searchs.🤣 "see you later"

When you say "visualization and visual memory" - what exactly does that mean? "99 percentile in visualization and visual memory"? Visual memory is one thing, visualization would mean that you're imagining a picture in your mind. Nobody can really measure what someone else is visualizing in another person's mind and say "that person has a 99 percentile for that". That falls into the whole fallacy about iq a lot of people have - this assumption that you can simply measure things like visualization or intelligence - there's the number and there you go.

I also would bet good money it was "visual memory" they tested and you just threw "visualization and visual memory" in there to try to force your point.

Nobody said some sort of visualization wasn't important in chess players by the way, of course visualization of some sort must help, it just doesn't work like a movie of all the chess pieces going around a board would be in a good player's mind. That's the only point people are making here.

I also never heard of that study before, maybe there were other problems with it since otherwise people would have heard about it. Here's Carlsen remarking on how bad he is at such things.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Wc9hPxbDXWM

Oddly enough, I bet Carlsen might well be in the 99th percentile if he tried hard at it, the only point being made is that visualization isn't EVERYTHING, it's only one component. To be the best in the world you have to be 99 percentile at everything remotely relevant, and visualization and particularly visual memory is certainly some component to being a good chess player.

Sorry I can't provide more details--my wife found that information at the UC Berkeley psychology library whe she was a student and I first became interested in chess (1971).

Note that I brought this up in answer to Opti's query about what other factors besides IQ might affect chess ability.

Mainly I want to point out that I used the word "pluralism" as an example of a word that can be observed from different meanings, in the same way I can use the word "tension" with electrical or mental meaning. I am very social, I accept diversity, assembly and consensus.In many senses Im pluralist from my angle of vision,and to try no point out dictionary meanings,but personal vision.Im not philosophist academic,but take on account that the phylosophy start a lot of time before our cristian age,independently of today schools.My achivement as Philosopy is linked to magic as think systems.The title name is Magus Philosophus linked to the occulted phylosophy.Is not opposite to other sistems necessarelly but paralel.In same way that Parapsychology has teachings from psychology and tries to cover metaphysical points where psychology stops.

A players rating is usually significantly higher than his or her IQ.

In parapsicology I do not have title or degree,but I had a professional mentor.

Has anyone done a study on the inverse relationship between IQ and number of posts in this thread?