Requesting a draw
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Can you tell us which game? Just to see if the player has some sort of justification for requesting a draw at 7 points down?
De-Lar, can you point to a page on chess.com that states the "proper" use of vacation time? Or any page that says you can't use it whenever you want for whatever reason you want? Also, is there anywhere on the site that says delaying a lost game is against the rules?
EDIT:
londonplayer had a specific question about the clock usage during a draw offer.
I woud certainly agree that it is not sportsman like, even if its within the rules of the site.
Loomis wrote: De-Lar, can you point to a page on chess.com that states the "proper" use of vacation time? Or any page that says you can't use it whenever you want for whatever reason you want? Also, is there anywhere on the site that says delaying a lost game is against the rules?
While delaying a lost game is within the rules making repeated draw offers is against the rules in otb chess and isnt allowed. It should also be against the rules in online play imo to make repeated draw offers, especially when you are losing. Many people do this simply to distract/annoy their opponent who is probably already upset that they dont resign. Its very annoying and displays terrible sportsmanship.
Lol - it looks like the guy doesn't like losing. He's got 18 wins and 3 losses. But his opponents are usually low ranked.
I don't know what he's thinking about requesting a Draw in that situation. Looks to me like Resigning on his part is long overdue in that game. Or at least finishing it like a man.
De-Lar, thanks, I hadn't recalled that message since I haven't taken vacation in quite a while. I think that should appear somewhere else in the rules as well. In fact, I don't find a well structured set of rules on this site at all. I only came across the FAQ. I thought I recalled finding rules a while back, but if they are there, they seem hard to find.
Reb, I don't see how your comment is in any way a response to what I wrote. I didn't write anything about the draw offers and you wrote exclusively about the draw offers.
I am guessing you have now identified the game I refer too and am pleased with the feedback receive. It is nice to know I am not alone in my view of this level of play. I thank you all for your imput and time. I guess I will sit back and wait for the right decision. One of the problems I have discovered that can occur is I think in times like this is one can be distracted from a game that goes on for so long with long intervals in between and lose the thread. I had a very quick learning curve on that and to be sure to replay the game before making a move if there has been some time between moves. The game I lost was against a player with a rating below 1000 at the time of the game and whilst he had the advantage, I have played really badly, I would have regained it had I have played a different move which at the time of working things through I had already identified.
Jun 23, 2008
0
#9
the guy must be insane lol,he will be checkmated within the next ten moves
Why not make it the same as OTB chess, you have to make your move before you offer a draw that way people couldn't use constant draw offers as a stall tactic since they would have to move first?
Loomis wrote:
De-Lar, thanks, I hadn't recalled that message since I haven't taken vacation in quite a while. I think that should appear somewhere else in the rules as well. In fact, I don't find a well structured set of rules on this site at all. I only came across the FAQ. I thought I recalled finding rules a while back, but if they are there, they seem hard to find.
Reb, I don't see how your comment is in any way a response to what I wrote. I didn't write anything about the draw offers and you wrote exclusively about the draw offers.
Loomis, you pointed out that delaying a lost game is within the rules of chess.com, which I agreed with. ( this alone constitutes adressing some of what you added) I then went on to focus on the repeated draw offers which you didnt address at all, but the original poster did indicate that the repeated draw offers ( from an opponent who is losing) is one of the things he is concerned about.
I believe in otb (at least over here) you can offer a draw at any time, but if it's your turn to move, your opponent can simply ask that you make a move and then offer again. The disadvantage being if you find a winning move on a closer look, you're under no obligation to offer the draw after your move.
Why would your opponent have to ask you to make a move? Can't your opponent just sit and consider the offer and flag you if you refuse to move?
Jun 23, 2008
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#14
I actually had an opponent who repeatedly requested a draw within the first 5 moves, in a tournament, "because I don't want to play you"
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote: I actually had an opponent who repeatedly requested a draw within the first 5 moves, in a tournament, "because I don't want to play you"
Was this in online chess or otb?
sstteevveenn wrote: I believe in otb (at least over here) you can offer a draw at any time, but if it's your turn to move, your opponent can simply ask that you make a move and then offer again. The disadvantage being if you find a winning move on a closer look, you're under no obligation to offer the draw after your move.
I believe if its a fide rated event fide rules apply. In that case if my opponent offers me a draw without moving I can demand to see his move first and he cannot retract the draw offer once made. I can choose whether to accept or decline after seeing his move but he cannot retract the offer. The correct procedure is to make your move and then offer the draw.
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote: I actually had an opponent who repeatedly requested a draw within the first 5 moves, in a tournament, "because I don't want to play you"
I would have let him know that he was more than welcome to resign if he was in no mood to play.
Well your opponent wouldnt have to ask you, but could ask if he wanted. He could also simply consider the offer, but it may be that there is only one hard to find good move and your opponent is offering you a draw because he isnt sure he's found it, in which case you might want to have him make a move.
Fide says this
"A player wishing to offer a draw shall do so after having made a move on the chessboard and before stopping his clock and starting the opponent`s clock. An offer at any other time during play is still valid, but Article 12.6 must be considered. No conditions can be attached to the offer. In both cases the offer cannot be withdrawn and remains valid until the opponent accepts it, rejects it orally, rejects it by touching a piece with the intention of moving or capturing it, or the game is concluded in some other way."
Where 12.6 simply forbids annoying the opponent in any way, including unreasonable draw offers.
So I believe if your opponent requests you make a move first, that is a rejection but with a 'feel free to offer again after you have moved and I wont consider it unreasonable'.
I still don't see why you would ever request your opponent make a move, and especially if this amounts to declining the draw offer. If there was only one good move and I wanted to see if my opponent can find it, the last thing I want to do is decline the draw. If he finds the move I want to still have the draw in hand.
I would also never accept a draw while it is my opponent's turn. If offered, I would simply sit and consider it until he moves and it's my turn. What do I have to lose by waiting to accept the draw until after he's moved? Since draw offers cannot be taken back, it doesn't hurt me to wait.
Well maybe the only good move would lead to a draw anyway, but the other moves would lose for your opponent.
You are right though, according to the rule you could just wait for your opponent to move and then make up your mind. The rule could do with tidying up, since the bit about offering before pressing your clock is completely meaningless as there is no disadvantage to pressing the clock and then offering. I guess also your opponent could be forced to move with the offer open, since you wont have touched a piece in the mean time, which would mean whatever i read elsewhere is incorrect.
Can anyone tell me, if an opponent requests a draw without making his move does this stop the clock?
I have a game on at present where I am in a winning position yet the player keeps requesting a draw which I have now declined 3 times. He is 7 points down and about to lose another 3 more so there is no way am I going to take a draw in this case.
He is also a member so the vacation keeps kicking in and he does not need to play. I am happy to wait it out and may be this game will go on for years but it is a bit unsportsman like in my view.
What are your thoughts?