Rules issue, is this a draw ?

What is the result of a timed game where a player in an endgame situation (with sufficient material to mate) runs out of time but the other player has insufficient material to mate ?

It happened to me a few days ago where I was on the losing side having only a King and knight although my opponent still had a few pieces (enough to deliver mate), ran out of time and I was awarded a draw, it's never really occured to me till now but shouldn't that be a win to myself who still had ample time ?

Obviously a King and knight can't deliver mate on an otherwise empty board but in theory had my opponent trapped his king in then checkmate may have been possible.

Please don't think I'm a sore loser, I accept in reality my opponent played a better game, but was just curious what the official ruling is.

Many thanks.

That is the official chess.com rule.  If you click on FAQS (next to the green pawn at the bottom of the page)and then "How to claim a draw" under "Live Chess" you could read about it yourself.

If mate is possible, even if it depends on terrible blunders by your opponent, you should get the win.

I believe the FIDE rule is that it's a draw unless you can show a forced sequence of moves to mate, whereas in USCF it just has to be technically possible (this could be the opposite way round). Not sure about ECF.

Fide rule says any series of legal moves, if I'm not mistaken.

Must be the other way round then. Or perhaps in neither do you have to demonstrate it.

Don't know about USCF, but in FIDE you win if it is possible to win. Just like rooperi said.  The best way to answer this question is to ask yourself is a helpmate possible? Yes? Then you win. No, then it is a draw.

However, before his/her time runs out in the final time period (and it is not blitz) then according to article 10.2 your opponent can claim a draw.

All of the above FIDE/USCF discussion is interesting guys, but how did all of you miss the fact that  the OP is talking about a game here on chess.com?  I've already pointed you to the FAQs section where "insufficient material" is discussed.  Just to be sure, I even looked up the OP's game archive and found the game.....

Didn't miss it, but you'd already answered that much.

@ baddogno.

Yeah it was kind of a side-discussion. Also I assumed () that chess.com would base it's rules on FIDE.

@ OP

Chess.com states:

Finally, note that in cases where the opponent has insufficient material to mate (lone King, King + Knight, King + Bishop, King + 2 Knights) a draw will be automatically declared where there is a time-out.

Link:

With adding 2 knights as an example of insufficient material, they deviate from the FIDE-rules. Since it is technically possible to checkmate with 2 knights. Although they are between () they serve as an example. I think they added the "2 knights versus nothing is a draw rule" to prevent abuse from player who just use their 2 knights to push their opponents through the clock.  Because I dont think it is their intention to allow the following:

Yes you see it correct. White will win if he gets the move. But black can save himself by letting his time run down to 0. 

By that understanding think you should be awarded the win, in your game:

the reason the system didn't must be a technical one.

The Chess.com rule for insufficient material differs from both FIDE and USCF rules.  It incorporates FIDE 10.2a

Many thanks for your replies especially to Baddogno who kindly posted a copy of the game in question.

The point I was trying to make although I didn't explain it very well is 2 questions really, firstly can a player win on time irrespective of what material they have left ?

Secondly, if the player with insufficient material to force a win could in theory deliver checkmate after a run of serious blunders by his opponent does this change matters ?

In my own example, I had only a knight against a queen and pawns so obviously I couldn't force a win though checkmate may have theoretically possible had my opponent trapped his king in with his own pieces and allowed a me to give a smothered mate using my knight.

check mate is definitely there if white helps.

Point 1.

No matter what set of rules, you can NEVER win if you have no material.

Point 2.

According to fide rules, if a mate is possible with the material on the board, yes, you can win with a lone minor piece, for eg. Apparently, this site rules it differently.

This site rules it slightly differently for the sake of simplifying its implementation.

This site also doesn't have an insufficient losing changes rules, due to the need for an arbitrator to rule on it.

I've always viewed these two deficiencies as being in rather reasonable balance with each other in the grand scheme of things.

WRONG!  Based on what you are saying, if White has a King and Bishop, and Black has a King and Bishop, Bishops are of opposite color, then the one that runs out of time losess?  NO!  Absolutely not!

There is what is known as "Insufficient Mating Material".  There are 4 forms of it:

1 - Lone King

2 - King and One Knight

3 - King and One Bishop

4 - King and Two Knights and the Opponent has NO PAWNS

If the player who does not run out of time has anything other than the 4 combinations mentioned above, even King and 1 pawn where the pawn is no where near promoting, the side that didn't run out of time wins.  The idea is that a pawn can be promoted to a Queen or Rook.

If, however, the player who does not run out of time has any of those 4 scenarios above (2 Knights vs a pawn, one can block the pawn, the other and the King can corner the opposing King, then you release the pawn, and the King isn't stalemated, and you win), then it is ruled a draw UNLESS you can demonstrate FORCED MATE!  (NOT HELP MATE!)

An example of a position where the side with insufficient mating material would get a win is the following:

WKe6, WBh6, BKg8, BPe7, BPh7

With Black to move, if he lets his clock run out, White must get a tournament director to indicate that he is claiming a win on time as he has forced mate with the King and Lone Bishop in the form of Black must play 1...Kh8, then White plays 2.Kf7, Black must move the e-pawn, and White mates with 3.Bg7#.

Otherwise, a senario like WK, WB, BK, BN, and B Rook Pawn, White can't claim a win, even though Black could be stupid, get his pawn to h2, King on h1, Knight on g1, White King g3, Bishop on h3, where Black's last move was Ne2-g1 or Nf3-g1 and White plays Bh3-g2 Mate.  This would be ruled a draw via Time vs Material.  One ran out of time and the other doesn't have sufficient material to mate.  Draw!

By the way, SAME APPLIES TO USCF!  The scenario above was what I had in my 2nd ever tournament back in 1997.  I was White with a Light-Squared Bishop, Black had a Knight and h-pawn, and he ran out of time, and I tried to demonstrate mate was possible, so the rule book had to be pulled out, and it was ruled a draw.

U can't win with knight and king forget about that... U won on time... If it weren't for the time u woulda lost... So to be fair it's a draw...

@ThrillerFan

What you stated is USCF rule 14E.  On Chess.com, we play in accordance with Chess.com rules, which, in general follow FIDE rules.  The Chess.com insufficient material rule (which applies after the flag has fallen) is a combination of USCF's "Insuffidient material" rule, which applies after the flag has fallen, and USCF's "Insufficient losing chances" rule, which applies before the flag has fallen (The USCF rules are similar to, but not identical to FIDE Articles 6.9 and 10.2a).  

There is no single set of rules for playing chess.  You follow the rules of the applicable organization when you are playing.

Yes, absolutely so.

rooperi clearly stated according to FIDE. 

It's also probably easier to code if they just have to find the material to tell if it's won or drawn. Trying to determine if a mate is possible could be quite difficult, you would need some sort of strong reverse engine.