I had this come up in a club rated game of write your moves down game in 25 min. action chess.I had black playing the top rated player in our club.when we were both under two min. we both stoped writing the moves down.I had offered a draw a passed pawn up.White declined after min yan off his clock.Then i had a clear win when white picks up his knight starts to put it down i in the time scramble make my move an white says you lose you hanged your king.Now we play a lot of 5min 3min an 2min blitz an white who will go unnamed is known for in bad positions in time srambles fake a move change it at last second an win a lost game.He ran the club tournament an needed to win to win the club tournament as we were both in position to win.We then played the position out with the clock after i make another king move an i win.He claimed the win on the king hang.However i pointed out this is only for blitz that in 25 min write your moves down its not a automatic win that i have to make a legal king move an he has two min. added to his clock.In the final position when i hang my king i have aprox 1min 28 sec on my clock he has 1min an 7 sec.When we went under two min both sides quit writing our moves down.To win i used 47 sec to checkmate him .However he clayms win on my king hang.I rechecked action chess rules a king hang is listed as a illegale move an he has two min added to his clock.I play a lot of blitz an in this position if he had two hours added i still win.However he runs the club tournanments an he claimed the win an told me i had to sign the score sheet.Now as we play in a bookstore on sundays to avoid a public scene i signed it.After i drove home rechecked rules i called him the next day an told him he is dead wrong an that while i should have won i will claim a draw at the next club meeting i will put it to a vote of the club members if its not put down as a draw.He is a player who had a rating of 2100 when he was at his peak 10 years ago.At this point he knows i push him to be top player at the club an thats why he makes up a rule which we only use in our club for blitz chess.Anyway i would like other opinions.
Rules of the King hang in chess
I know i to long but would like other opinions of 25 min chess rules.
First, I think you're correct that in action chess an illegal move is a 2 minute penalty, not a loss.
Second, the TD needs to make a ruling on the spot. Not allow you to play out the game under one set of rules and then allow your opponent to go back and claim a win based on an earlier illegal move. If your opponent let's the game continue, he gives up an right to make a claim based on that position.
Third, your opponent was the TD, so unless there is an assistant TD available, you might be out of luck. I think your appeal to a vote of the club members is a good option in this case even if such a vote is not covered in the rule book.
From your rambling text, I believe you are correct. (illegal moves = 2 minutes added to the opponents time if claimed.) However, you also, I think resigned or accepted what he said, and signed the scoresheet. The result stands. Chalk it up to experience.
I did not know the uscf still allows a td to participate in a tournament in which they are the td ? They used to allow this but I thought they stopped allowing it ? In any event, in action chess you are not required to keep score...... at least this used to be part of the very definition of " action chess ". If you had to keep score then its not action chess. You lose when you make an illegal move ONLY in blitz chess and not in action nor regular. You are penalized by the opponent getting more time on their clock, usually 2 or 3 minutes.
Reb, I think it's not supposed to be allowed, but it's not enforced at all. It happens all the time. It always makes me a bit uneasy too. Partly because of exactly what has happened here, the TD is forced to make a ruling in his own game. But also because I don't think a player who also has to TD is playing at their true rating strength in that tournament.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of tournaments that wouldn't happen at all if the TD wasn't allowed to play. A lot of TDs are willing to put in the effort because they want to be able to play in tournaments.
It should be enforced. In this case the td involved even seems to not know the rules concerning illegal moves in different time controls ? You can write a report to uscf about these things and incompetent TDs can be stripped of their TD mantle. The td clearly made a wrong decision and it was a clear conflict of interest as well in this particular case, which is why a td shouldnt be allowed to play..... its also curious that they were keeping score in G/25 , were you required to keep score or just decided to ? I dont think you can be required to for anything faster than G/30 , but things change..... whats the deal with that now ?
It's kind of a catch-22. If you report your local TD that may be the end of your opportunity to play in tournaments. In the case where the TD is really incompetent (doesn't know several of the rules) it's probably worth reporting. But just for playing in the tournament, I wouldn't report it.
The uscf has to know when a td plays in his own tournament, no ? To have the games rated they have to send in a report with the results and player information and must also supply TD info. If the uscf isnt enforcing this they should just go ahead and allow it imo. In this particular instance if I was the player that got "shafted" I would report the TD for shafting me, unless he put things "right ". This TD was incompetent if he really didnt know the rules concerning illegal moves, every TD should know such rules.
Yes, if they wanted to check up on it, it would be easy since the name would appear as TD and player in the report. I'm sure they didn't think of that when they had the software that receives tournament reports written, and they're just not going to go through all the tournaments by hand trying to catch it.
First was not uschessfederation rated just club.we all went along with writing moves down stoping at under two min.I to thought that 30 min would have been the best time control.The 25 min was so we could get in two rouds a hour including parings.He is a good blindfold player who is tough to beat.He has the game score however nothing came off the board for over 20 moves.He missed a hard to see win in the game i missed one also but in the final position which we played out fast using the clock only after i agree to sign the score sheet i won an its clear cut if he had two hours not two min added i still most likly win.If iwin i have clear first spot with a draw its 3 way tie .
However we were trying to do everthing the right way in order to starthaving usch rated half hour tournaments.From the rules i have seen online its classified as an illeagl move an i have to make a legal king move an he gets 2 min added to his clock.The auto loss is only for 5 in an under in rare instances 15 an under but at 15 min everyone beforehand has to agree to it.
I don't understand the reason behind protesting this game.
What is the motivation here?
Are we trying to save rating points? Are we trying to win a trophy?
Is it for the sake of pride?
If I ever make a chess move in which I allow my opponent to take my King, then under no circumstances do I really believe I "deserve" any of these things.
I should lose rating points.
I don't deserve a trophy.
And I certainly have nothing to be proud of.
Speed chess leads to lots of blunders.
Pawns are often frivolously lost.
Pieces fall left and right.
Even Queens are occasionally abandoned in ignorance.
But once you get to the point where you don't even recognize that your King is being threatened, it's time to just walk away, hope nobody else noticed, and call it a day.
--CM
also he would not play the game out until i signed the score sheet.When we played it outhe to be fair did not add two min to his clock however at this point my win is almost forced even if he had two hours i need only a min.I play vey good at 2min chess.We were at the end playing fast i had a clear win he makes a knight move which was his best move my bad i move an from from what other players tell me he saw my move an changed his he is known for this dirty but legal stuff in blitz chess however this was not blitz.
Yes my bad missing king hang however a rule is a rule its not blitz its game in 25 min under rules of 30 min just done at 25 to get two rounds in a hour.Rule is he gets two min.I told him you can not make up rules to win first spot.Club rating an pride were at stake.If payed out i win however i told him i will take drawe to keep the peace however hes the type who wants to win at any cost.I think i also do it for the other club players to show everyone including the top player must play fair.
So far last i spoke to him he is still a hard head about this.He told me we could play it out with two min added to his clock.I told him no we played it out with the time left on our clocks an as the last 7 to 8 moves were not put down on the score sheet an as i was upset i did not think to record the final position when i hang my king we would have to go by what we thik is right.It was a position where because of pawn formation i queen first an pick up his queen his next move when he queens his pawn.now this took about 9 to 10 moves so if hasone pawn out of order in his favor he wins.I think its more than fair i get a draw as when we play the game out i win an right afterthis he tryd to find a win but all lines i queen first.So if the rule was apply the right way he gets two min added to his clock its a forced move pawn race i win most likely even if he had two hours.Hes good at settin up positions as he plays good blindfold.however i smell a rat with just a small change on his part he wins.So i told him as we did not write the moves dowm under two min. an i was to upset by his unfair rule that a king hang is a auto win for him an that i have to sign the score sheet before he would play it out.i told him no we already played it out an he lost that its him that should as the TD added two min to his clock that i have a right to claim a win but to try to be fair i will take a draw.The fact he now wish to play it out smells bad after him being so un fair now i a good endgame player give me two or the min i can do the ending in my head to see if its cooked however he wnts me to go by his memory of the hang king position me be on the clock make a legal king move an play that as soon as he sets it up he starts my clock.Point is i have at most from time he sets uo position 10 sec to spot a cooked position i do not now trust him.So i plan to ask for my score sheet back cross out his win an put it down as a draw.At this point to me i should have been club champ for last sunday bot i ok with a three way tie just as long as hes not first.
Just to correct comments from this post, since it's been a long time ago, I can still put the position up to know, ask the original post maker to set up the position if he can not I will add it to my posting.
First off it is not a club rated game and it is just a skittle tournament.
And I announced the rules on this club tournament before everyone started thier clock, (hentener did not pay attention to that part) till I claimed illegal move.
BTW, my name is Cecil Rosal (sirrook) here. Club Director at the Biloxi Chess Club (1990), also I post club activities on same club name here at chess.com.
Here are the chess rules that hentener claimed that he is right about I verbally mentioned it to all.
1. Touch move he touched and moved the pawn on the a file.
2. Illegally touched and moved the pawn, while his King is under check and my knight is forking the King and his rook.
3. Touched pawn and moved it while his king is under check and pressed my clock.
So, which chess rule violation can somebody claim? This is not a club rated game, and I claimed the win ,so I as club director put a pending results to this particular game.
Also, to correct his inaccurate USCF rating he posted for me, here is the actual highest rating I attained 2041 my current rating now is 1853 (I'll correct it if I am wrong)
I put the digram later.
Reb wrote:
I did not know the uscf still allows a td to participate in a tournament in which they are the td ? They used to allow this but I thought they stopped allowing it ? In any event, in action chess you are not required to keep score...... at least this used to be part of the very definition of " action chess ". If you had to keep score then its not action chess. You lose when you make an illegal move ONLY in blitz chess and not in action nor regular. You are penalized by the opponent getting more time on their clock, usually 2 or 3 minutes.
Hi, it is not uscf rated and not even a club rated games. I just claimed his King grab, but he would not accept losing a game. And the rule before we started playing this non rated club is treat it like a blitz game, did he pay attention , everyone else did including me.