Sometimes this is used on high level, as an opening surprise succesfully, but I think its just a trick, and if black play correctly agianst it, he will be better, but in a unusual position, that is hard to play for both sites.
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A lot of the time that I see it, it's against the Sicilian and probably an attempt at some sort of quick mating trap (combined with a knight or the white bishop), or sometimes thinking it's an easy grab of a pawn. I agree with the other posters, that with correct play you can normally be better, often chasing the Queen all over, and if you are lucky, trapping her.
That's just at my level; perhaps some better players find some use in it. I suspect the higher you get, the less it is used though. From everything I've read it goes against all received wisdom regarding correct development.
SimonSeirup wrote:
Sometimes this is used on high level, as an opening surprise succesfully, but I think its just a trick, and if black play correctly agianst it, he will be better, but in a unusual position, that is hard to play for both sites.
Against this, I would move the pawn at g7 to g6. It seems like a bad play if it can be interrupted so quickly. White would have to waste a move pulling the queen back or lose her.
Asche wrote:
SimonSeirup wrote:
Sometimes this is used on high level, as an opening surprise succesfully, but I think its just a trick, and if black play correctly agianst it, he will be better, but in a unusual position, that is hard to play for both sites.
Against this, I would move the pawn at g7 to g6. It seems like a bad play if it can be interrupted so quickly. White would have to waste a move pulling the queen back or lose her.
Oh god, anything but that. That's exactly what white wants. Then queen captures on e5, forking the king and the rook.
First, Nc6, then g6.
BaronVonMolden wrote:
A lot of the time that I see it, it's against the Sicilian and probably an attempt at some sort of quick mating trap (combined with a knight or the white bishop), or sometimes thinking it's an easy grab of a pawn. I agree with the other posters, that with correct play you can normally be better, often chasing the Queen all over, and if you are lucky, trapping her.
That's just at my level; perhaps some better players find some use in it. I suspect the higher you get, the less it is used though. From everything I've read it goes against all received wisdom regarding correct development.
In general, I've found it relatively easy to trap the queen (now, granted I'm not very experienced so I tend play people of my own level) but if I continue to threaten her my opponent has to focus so much on keeping her out of trouble they forget my other pieces on the board. Often, they walk right into a threat they didn't see because they were so busy watching the last move I made.
metallictaste wrote:
Asche wrote:
SimonSeirup wrote:
Sometimes this is used on high level, as an opening surprise succesfully, but I think its just a trick, and if black play correctly agianst it, he will be better, but in a unusual position, that is hard to play for both sites.
Against this, I would move the pawn at g7 to g6. It seems like a bad play if it can be interrupted so quickly. White would have to waste a move pulling the queen back or lose her.
Oh god, anything but that. That's exactly what white wants. Then queen captures on e5, forking the king and the rook.
First, Nc6, then g6.
Ah, I see now. Thank you very much; I would have missed that one.
uhohspaghettio wrote:
SimonSeirup wrote:
Sometimes this is used on high level, as an opening surprise succesfully, but I think its just a trick, and if black play correctly agianst it, he will be better, but in a unusual position, that is hard to play for both sites.
That is the Parham Attack, it is practically NEVER seen at ANY type of decent level. Nakamura used it once or maybe twice and that's it! That opening is a joke.
OP: The Scandanavian is a perfectly serious and playable defence. The main line is 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5. Black's queen is out, however White can no longer fight for a powerful centre. This is why the Scandanavian Defence is considered quite good.
If Black's queen's knight is gone, as it often is in the Scotch, then the Queen can often be quite justified in coming out early. The Lowenthal variation of the Sicilian is another opening where the Queen can come out early... but note that it soon comes back to d1. The key thing I suppose is that it was useful for a minute, now the best square is d1 (it's not jumping around the board).
Again: The Parham attack is just a joke. It's not even mentioned in most opening books, while the Scandanavian should get as much pages as any other opening bar the most popular of all like the Ruy Lopez (whole books have been written on the Scandanavian).
Thank you very much for sharing this. I'm definitely going to keep it in mind for future use. Again, thank you.
RegicidalManiac wrote:
Hi Asche, I have not forgotten about your analysis game, just been very busy...the posters above have rounded this up fairly well. It is very rare at high level play. occasionally in blitz with the hope that the veteran player has not seen it in so long that he will blunder with g6
Thank you for the update: I was, admittedly, starting to wonder if you had forgotten. Don't worry about it too much, though. I don't want to be a bother to you.
All your comments have gotten me thinking: If the Parham Attack isn't mentioned in most books, why do so many people use it (at a beginning level)? Do they just figure the queen is the strongest so she should be moved first?
chessmaster102 wrote:
I'd like to hear what other, more experienced players have to say about this opening since I'm not really in a position where I can see what's a good idea and what isn't.
Jun 2, 2011
0
#14
I think most players who play the Parham Attack don't see it as an opening for themselves, but simply try to go for the Scholar's Mate ...
I don't like to see the Scandinavian when playing as White ... I've lost some games against an opponent who always plays this, even with the tempo-losing line with 3. ... Qd8.
I have one favorite line involving an early queen which is Tarrasch's line against the Philidor Defence - I always play this if I have the opportunity:
The queen stands there quite threatening and isn't easily attacked anymore.
AnthonyCG wrote:
Asche wrote:
All your comments have gotten me thinking: If the Parham Attack isn't mentioned in most books, why do so many people use it (at a beginning level)? Do they just figure the queen is the strongest so she should be moved first?
That's why it's used. It's not popular and it looks cool.
Most beginners like to go for checkmate fast and I think this is the quickest try. The main argument is that while Black can equalize, how many beginners know what equalizing means or how to do it? ZERO. So both players will play what they think is best and the better player will win. That is the main idea of playing this way.
A similar effort is 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Qxd4 Nc6 4.Qe3. And it's not just beginners that can fall to it. I know a 1900 that creams other 1900s with 2.Qh5. It's very funny.
The best thing for you to do is simply play the best moves you can and watch out for tactical tricks. Every one of White's moves is attacking something and it's good tactical practice to be able to figure it out.
That's a good way to look at it (as tactical training). Admittedly, I start to get annoyed when people throw their queen at me every other game mostly because I feel like they're not playing as well as I think they could but also because I can't always fend it off. So having a more positive attitude is an important idea.
Jun 2, 2011
0
#16
Another key thing to remember is that particuarly at beginnner level you can get completely destroyed in the opening (i.e. suffer a big lapse in development, get an awkward pawn structure or an exposed king) and still be able ot win the game if your opponent just blunders a piece for nothing.
The Nimzowitsch Attach against the French Defense is a sound opening and yet White brings her queen to 'g4' on move number four. Here is the Open Encyclopedia of Chess Openings page on it: http://oeco.dyndns-wiki.com/mediawiki/index.php/2.e4_d5_3.e5_c5_4.Qg4
I love to bring my queen out early. I like to think of it as a way of asserting absolute dominance. I'll be convinced that it's a bad idea. Just as soon as it has been demonstrated as such.
Your knight and your bishop vs my knight,my bishop,my queen and a can of spinach.
I don't mean to sound rude. But, I've heard so much talk of how technically wrong my openings are! From opponents who afterworld found them selves in checkmate!
Besides, some opponents rely on their queen. Bringing your queen out early is a good way of eliminating both queens from the game.
One more thing. I don't know about you guys! But, i don't play masters very often.
Other than a few times here on chess.com. In which case i ether played the kings gambit or brought my queen out early. Only the games where which i did not,did i lose.
I've noticed that a number of people I've played will move their queen out on their second move. Personally, I save the queen for later in the game as it just doesn't seem smart to put her out in the open right off the bat. Of the games I've played where my opponent has done this, regularly they have to keep their queen on the move to prevent me from capturing her. It seems like more work than it's worth. However, once in a while, moving the queen first has resulted in me being checkmated very quickly. So I'm wondering: What do more experienced players think? Is it a good idea to move the queen out early in the game or should you keep her away from the action until later in the game?