Study vs. Play time?

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Avatar of JamesRook

My intentions with chess is to become a professional tournament chess player.  I have been playing almost every day for 2 years now, and I have read about a book and a half.  I know for a fact that I have spent WAYYYY more time playing chess, than studying from books, etc.  I am here, asking for advice.  Every once in a while I will have a great game, and can play good battles against 1700 rated players.  I find it difficult to raise my rating because I blunder too often...If my goal is to become a professional, I wonder if I should change my strategy for learning chess. 

Which is more important, study or play?  Comments, suggestions, ideas, are all appreciated!

Cheers!

James

Avatar of KyleJRM

I'm afraid it's *way* too late to become a professional player at your age and playing strength. There's only enough money for a handful of people in the world to be professional players, and those spots are all taken up by people who will be studying just as many hours as you will but have already gotten years of a head start. But take heart, there's still plenty of time to have a fun and rewarding amateur chess career!


To answer the question, play is a two-edged sword. Play that reinforces good habits and implements new ideas learned through study is good for you. Play that repeats mistakes and reinforces bad habits is detrimental. So you should play as often as you need to to be able to implement new ideas and reinforce good habits, and study the remainder.

Avatar of JamesRook

Your wrong. I am 23 and still have many more years ahead of me to become a professional...I do not expect to become a GM overnight...but give me 20 years, and i will become a great player.  I know so because, well...I know how smart I am.  Thanks for the comment, but you are well...wrong.

Avatar of Moon_Knight
JamesRook wrote:

Your wrong. I am 23 and still have many more years ahead of me to become a professional...I do not expect to become a GM overnight...but give me 20 years, and i will become a great player.  I know so because, well...I know how smart I am.  Thanks for the comment, but you are well...wrong.


 

While I don't agree with Kyle. I think play is essential. For example: You can read as many books about basketball as you want; but if you don't play often you'll never improve. Because as soon as someone does something that's not in the book, you're lost.

I'm 15 and have just recently decided that I want to be a proffesional tournament player too. Not as a living but to win a scholarship and some money for college. I study everyday often averaging 10-12 live blitz chess games a day. And a few rounds with my automated chess board at night; I read chess magazines at school and study openings around the clock.

While There are a lot of younger opponents who have more time to study than you but it's not too late for you. Study hard, Play hard and win often. And you can make your dream a success.

And lol what you  to hope do in 20 years; I plan to make reality in 2.

G'luck. We should play sometime.

Avatar of ArsovMarketing

I think in life you have to do what it wants your heart.If you so, and not just for the money, then go ahead and dont give up.But I think you should hire a professional chess player as a teacher - to recommend you  books to study and train, as you build on your strengths and correct your weaknesses in the game.And another thing, if you want to developingonly play long chess and only with stronger opponents than you.

I wish you success heartily,

Avatar of JamesRook

Thanks! See you on the board tonito!Cool

Avatar of Chessgod123
JamesRook wrote:

Your wrong. I am 23 and still have many more years ahead of me to become a professional...I do not expect to become a GM overnight...but give me 20 years, and i will become a great player.  I know so because, well...I know how smart I am.  Thanks for the comment, but you are well...wrong.


While I wish you all the best luck, you are seriously misunderstanding what it takes to make a good living out of Chess. You'd need to be in the world top 100 or so just to have a chance, and I can guarantee that you will fail to do so starting at the age of 21, regardless of "how smart" you are. You want to know what it takes to become a GM? At least 98% of GMs started playing when they were under 7, and spent all of their spare time - we're talking four hours per school day plus six to nine hours per weekend day - working on Chess. Furthermore, they would have to have talent literally putting themselves at the very top of their country - I know a twelve-year-old who is the English U13 Champion (national champion for the year above his), whose coach predicts that he will reach an IM title if he continues spending about 3 hours a day on Chess. I don't mean to discourage you, but you are vastly underestimating the game if you think you can become a GM starting at age 21 when you've played for just 2 years.

That said, maybe you can do well and earn a bit of supplementary money from Chess. Good luck :)

Avatar of JamesRook

I again will say this...I think you are wrong.  Maybe I should restate my 2 year thing.  I have probably played 50 chess games until I was 21.  I played those 50 games probably 5 a year...so I have seen the chess board for a while.  When I mean I have been playing for 2 years, I mean actually trying to learn the game for 2 years.  This is the truth.

You all think I can not reach GM level, as long as I am alive, and the world is turning...I will continue to study chess. And let me say this, and I think this will prove my point.  If some kid can reach IM level at the age of 13, and him playing serious chess for 10 years....then I WILL REACH IM LEVEL after 20 years of dedicated study...I will become a master some day, if given the opportunity.

I dont see how anyone can say otherwise. 

Avatar of ChessMarkstheSpot

   Hey James!!

   I spend a lot of my time playing, but recently, quite recently in fact, I'm balancing the two quite well. It's like when you go for a job: You can't get the job without the experience and the experience without a job. Playing just reinforces what you study. If you want to try a certain opening that you're picking up on or maybe working out some kinks in the armor during the Middlegame/Endgame, playing is great for that, just as long, as Kyle said, the mistakes aren't repeated.

   As long as you dedicate yourself and keep way from distractions and truly want to be good at this amazing game, then anything can happen. I hope you succeed and I wish you luck. You certainly have the drive and the heart for it.  Laughing

   -Mark

Avatar of JamesRook

Chessgod...thank you for the comment, I suppose we can agree to diagree and I do not want to sound defensive or argumentative.  It just hits me to the bone when someone says I can't do something...especially something I have worked at, enjoyed, and loved for these past 2 years.  When someone tells me I can't do something...It gives me more motivation to achieve this.  This is why I am Deans list for 4 years of college...because after High school and a bunch of C's...life got in my face and said YOU CANT DO THIS!  I threw it right back and showed everyone what I CAN DO!  As long as I have the physical and mental capacity...I will never stop learning and playing chess...Im so addicted its not even funny. 

I have said my peace...

Avatar of KyleJRM

What you don't seem to realize is that there's not really an IM "level." It's a zero-sum game whereby in order to win IM norms, you must beat other players who will be studying just as much as you (probably much more) *and* have 10-15 years of a head start on you.

The kid is not IM level at 13. The kid at the age of 12 is the national champion for a large country of all kids even up to a year older than him. And as amazing as that is for a kid that age, he's going to have to keep studying chess intensely for years just to make IM. He *might* make GM, but probably not.

That kid is better than you at chess right now. He's at an age where the brain is more pliable and picks up patterns faster. He's going to have access to better teachers than you, and he'll be studying just as much as you plan to, if not more.

So I think it's safe to say that in 20 years, he'll still be better than you at chess. And here's how this is relevant to the point:

There are thousands of kids out there just like him. Imagine the top 3 players in his country at each age level. Now multiply that out among all the chess-playing countries. And realize that more kids are moving into those levels each year. They will all continue to be better at chess than you, and you will never beat them to earn the norms required of an IM, let alone a GM (which is roughly 10 times as hard as IM).

The issue here isn't how smart you are or how determined you are. I'm sure you are very smart and very determined. The issue here is that you don't understand exactly how far up the scale an IM or GM title is and how ridiculously hard it is to get there. Marilyn Vos Savant could not start as a 1500 player at the age of 21 and make GM, no matter how much she intended to study.

You could just as easily go to a basketball forum and announce that at the age of 21, you've decided you are going to become an NBA player because you like basketball and plan on working really hard at it.

You may think "But that's physical and this is mental." Unfortunately, your brain is also a physical construct. It has certain windows in which it is physically configured to learn certain things, and the best windows for learning are at a very young age. As we reach adulthood, our brains begin to solidify and it becomes much harder to learn new concepts (this is the same reason it is much harder for an adult to learn a foreign langauge than a child).

A child beginning at 7 and studying for 20 years will learn *much* more and *much* faster than an adult beginning at 21 and studying for 20 years.

So, as I said, those thousands of kids will continue to be better than you, and you will not make IM or GM.

If you stick to your plan for 20 years and have strong natural talent, national master might not be out of the question. That'd be a much more reasonable goal, although don't get discouraged if you don't reach it.

Avatar of xxdanielxx
. Furthermore, they would have to have talent literally putting themselves at the very top of their country - I know a twelve-year-old who is the English U13 Champion (national champion for the year above his), whose coach predicts that he will reach an IM title if he continues spending about 3 hours a day on Chess. 

if u dont mind me asking, who are u refering to? because i probabally know/know of him

Avatar of KyleJRM
JamesRook wrote:

This is why I am Deans list for 4 years of college


 

Each year in the United States, about 10% of the 15 million college students make the dean's list. That's about 1.5 million students per year. Congratulations on making that club! (and I mean that sincerely).

The current total of U.S. grandmasters: 60.

This club will be slightly harder to break into :)

Avatar of xxdanielxx

but also to achieve this goal you'll have to shun your social life and work life and all for becoming a good chess player? is it really worth it? and the sums of money you win aren't great for the time put in. aside from top top levels the prizes are really nothing compared to a real job

Avatar of Natalia_Pogonina
Chessgod123 wrote:
JamesRook wrote:

Your wrong. I am 23 and still have many more years ahead of me to become a professional...I do not expect to become a GM overnight...but give me 20 years, and i will become a great player.  I know so because, well...I know how smart I am.  Thanks for the comment, but you are well...wrong.


While I wish you all the best luck, you are seriously misunderstanding what it takes to make a good living out of Chess. You'd need to be in the world top 100 or so just to have a chance, and I can guarantee that you will fail to do so starting at the age of 21, regardless of "how smart" you are. You want to know what it takes to become a GM? At least 98% of GMs started playing when they were under 7, and spent all of their spare time - we're talking four hours per school day plus six to nine hours per weekend day - working on Chess. Furthermore, they would have to have talent literally putting themselves at the very top of their country - I know a twelve-year-old who is the English U13 Champion (national champion for the year above his), whose coach predicts that he will reach an IM title if he continues spending about 3 hours a day on Chess. I don't mean to discourage you, but you are vastly underestimating the game if you think you can become a GM starting at age 21 when you've played for just 2 years.

That said, maybe you can do well and earn a bit of supplementary money from Chess. Good luck :)


Well-said. There are two typical polar cases: people who claim that it takes an immense talent and one's whole life to reach, let's say, 2000 or 2300. Or those who believe that chess is "just a game" and keep asking "how do I become a GM in a year? or two?". If you tell them it is impossible nowadays, they sniff arrogantly and say: "you just don't realize how smart I am!!!". Laughing

Avatar of LollipopzRok

My suggestion for you is if your not playing a gmae that will stress you out with time...to look carefully before making your move. To often do people take someone elses piece and then afterwards realize how poor of a decision it was. I speak from personal experience x.x

Avatar of JamesRook

Honeslty...I dont care if it is NM...GM...IM...or whatever.  I just want to be recognized as a competant expert chess player...that is all.  I understand how my brain will not learn as fast as a child...and I respect this fact. 

I will take what you said about not getting dissapointed if it never happens seriously.  I understand it is a long shot...But I feel like my chess is powerful...I feel in control when my mind enters chess. I feel mentaly strong and alert.  The thing I have to conquer is emotion.  I have much emotion with chess matches, I need to erase the emotion...and employ more logic. 

Avatar of KyleJRM

"A competent expert chess player" is a very reasonable goal.  It will not be easy, but that's what will make it rewarding to spend a lifetime chasing!

Avatar of trysts
KyleJRM wrote:
JamesRook wrote:

This is why I am Deans list for 4 years of college


 

Each year in the United States, about 10% of the 15 million college students make the dean's list. That's about 1.5 million students per year. Congratulations on making that club! (and I mean that sincerely).

The current total of U.S. grandmasters: 60.

This club will be slightly harder to break into :)


That's a neat stat! Nice. Smile

But we are talking about 1.5 million "Americans". I would suspect four of them actually think, and eventually, they'll be shot...

Avatar of JamesRook

Trysts....elaborate furthere...Im not sure I follow what you mean?Surprised