The Kramnik -vs- Topalov Feud

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Avatar of Snookslayer

They recently played in the London Chess and Topalov resigned without a handshake. Commentators said they didn't shake to begin either - due to "the feud". 

 

Turns out, in 2006 Topalov accused Kramnik of cheating in their World Championship game!?!  Holy check-mate, I'm late to this party!  I didn't know cheating had ever been accused at the highest level - by a player no less.  So, what's the deal? Did the Russian's help Kramnik cheat?

 

2006 Interview linkage

How was the encounter with Kramnik?

Topalov: Very tense, although objectively speaking I dominated the majority of it.

What happened before the fifth game?

Topalov: We got the videos of what Kramnik was doing between every move. He was going to the bathroom many times and his behavior was very suspicious.

They accuse you of trying to disturb him because he was winning.

Topalov: We never wanted to stop the match. There were clear indications of cheating ["Había claros indicios de trampa"]. You look at that tape and it puts the fear into you. It's not just how many times he went to the bathroom, but how he went. Many times he came out, came to the board and moved instantly.

He alleges health problems.

Topalov: That's a lie ("Mentira"). I drank more than he did and didn't go to the bathroom so often. We protested, but the committee, which had sided with us, was fired.

They say it's inconceivable that the rival team had access to private video.

Topalov: They also saw my video. They followed my every step and everyone who was with me. And if he's not doing anything wrong, what's the problem?

Illescas said you exaggerated, and lied, about the number of times Kramnik went to the bathroom.

Topalov: I don't know how many times he went. My team only saw the tapes once and then they disappeared.

Maybe they were based on approximations.

Topalov: When they inspected the bathrooms they found a network cable hidden in the stucco ceiling.

That never came out.

Topalov: We kept it quiet for many reasons.

Was it a mistake to keep it quiet?

Topalov: We couldn't say anything. It was a very tense situation. If we announced it the match would have been cancelled and I wanted to play and to win the money. What's more, there were threats ["Además, había amenazas"].

Made by whom?

Topalov: Anonymous at the start, but they closed the airport. It's easy to talk here, but when you're in Russia you think about how you're going to get out. Walking? And forget about the money of course. So we shut up and continued the match.

Did you notice anything at the board?

Topalov: There you're focused. The problem for Illescas is that he didn't know what was going on either because Kramnik didn't say anything to anyone on his team.

So he got outside help?

Topalov: Yes. They were Russians, but not from the chess world.

So his team is innocent.

Topalov: I think so. They aren't involved; that's why they doubt and deny everything.

Did he get help from the KGB?

Topalov: The trick is that no professional player was implicated, and those who told him the moves were fans or from the KGB. If you gave Illescas that job they'd crush me.

Have you spoken with Kramnik?

Topalov: The Kremlin will never admit they killed the Russian spy, which seems obvious, as Kramnik won't admit he cheated. ["El Kremlin nunca reconocerá que envenenó al espía ruso, lo que parece obvio, ni Kramnik que hizo trampas"]

Did you feel in physical danger?

Topalov: Yes, and I don't think I'll ever go back there.

Let's move on to the rematch. You yourself think it's unlikely to be played.

Topalov: The problem is that Kramnik wants to keep the title without defending it over the board. He always wants some privilege. I don't even think he will play in Mexico.

In Kalmykia there was anti-doping control, yes?

Topalov: They gave us one test, but the laboratory was in Moscow.

What do you think of President Ilyumzhinov?

Topalov: He's a businessman and he simply needed to have a Russian champion. It's nothing personal. He got the order.

Do you believe that Kramnik continued cheating after the scandal was unleashed? ["¿Cree que Kramnik siguió haciendo trampas después de destaparse el escándalo?]

Topalov: Personally I think yes, and that the new method was better. [Personalmente, creo que sí y que el nuevo método fue mejor.]

Also in the tiebreak games?

Topalov: There they had a foolproof system. In the fourth game, when he already had me beat, Kramnik made a move that would only occur to a computer. He also had the right to a rest day, but even though he was sick he didn't take it. If you're going to have moves passed to you, best to play as soon as possible. But they did it better than the shoddy job with the cables.

If that's all true, what is going to happen in the future when computers are even stronger?

Topalov: If things continue this way, with the technology the Russians have, Kramnik will be invincible in a match.

There's no way to stop it?

Topalov: Before the tiebreak, when a member of my team checked him..

... for electronics?

Topalov: Yes, with a scanner. The guy was visibly shaking. I think he had something on his body and he was worried it would be discovered. I know that's my personal opinion, which is just a guess. The definitive proof for me is the cable.

But in the second game you wiped him off the board, although later you failed to finish him off.

Topalov: It was precisely because he played like a computer. He kept capturing pieces very quickly, with total calm, when my attack was very dangerous. I couldn't believe it. If you look at the position with a computer it loves black, although it's lost, until it's too late. How could he be so confident?

Before the match did you suspect anything like this?

Topalov: We had it in mind and we thought, well, in the worst case we'll get the money. The problem was that we found out. If you don't discover it you just play chess. But if you find out it wrecks you. You can't sleep and you spin yourself in circles.

shock.png

 

 

Avatar of urk
Kramnik never cheated. He's one of the very best players of all time. His accuracy is on par with Capablanca. I love Topalov's attacking genius but he was just being a whiner.
Avatar of ChrisWainscott
Topalov is a nice guy. Sadly, his manager, Silvio Dainalov, is not. Dainalov's insane and petty accusations were an embarrassment to chess.
Avatar of Ziryab
If Topalov said all the things attributed to him in the first post, he is far worse than I thought.
Avatar of Snookslayer
Ziryab wrote:
If Topalov said all the things attributed to him in the first post, he is far worse than I thought.

What if he's right?

Avatar of urk
He's not right.
Kramnik sent Kasparov into retirement, remember? He can play some chess and he's still number 3 in the world, even with his health problems.
Avatar of Candidate35
Very old news. At least in recent years they manage to play each other again.
Avatar of Snookslayer
Candidate35 wrote:
Very old news. At least in recent years they manage to play each other again.

So how did the story resolve?  Was there ever an investigation?   Does Topalov still call it a cheat, or has he since back-tracked?

 

Not shaking hands in last week's game leads me to believe Topalov still thinks he was cheated.

Avatar of Snookslayer

Anyone know the answer to these questions? Are the Russians as sneaky as Topalov says?

Avatar of thegreat_patzer

only god and the KGB I think know the whole truth of the matter.

 

nothing further will come of it but an hatred/rivalry between two old chess players, and the warning that engine cheating has changed the game in irreparable ways even at the highest level.

Avatar of Ziryab
Snookslayer wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
If Topalov said all the things attributed to him in the first post, he is far worse than I thought.

What if he's right?

 

His comments lack internal consistency. There's no way that he could be right. 

Avatar of Snookslayer
richie_and_oprah wrote:
Snookslayer wrote:

Anyone know the answer to these questions? Are the Russians as sneaky as Topalov says?

Sneakier.

Welcome to Trumperica.  Everything that should not happen will.  

Stay tuned. 

If it were any other country, they'd automatically get the benefit of the doubt. But it's Putin's Russia which has zero credibility - particularly in sports (sorry my Ruskie comrades). Makes any accusation seem plausible.

Avatar of pfren
Snookslayer wrote:

If it were any other country, they'd automatically get the benefit of the doubt. But it's Putin's Russia which has zero credibility - particularly in sports (sorry my Ruskie comrades). Makes any accusation seem plausible.

You mean that the American steroids are the only credible ones?

Avatar of incantevoleutopia

swallowing skills 10/10

Avatar of toiyabe
Snookslayer wrote:

Anyone know the answer to these questions? Are the Russians as sneaky as Topalov says?

 

Yes, they are.  They murdered Alekhine.  

Avatar of Molotok89

 "Topalov: It was precisely because he played like a computer. He kept capturing pieces very quickly, with total calm, when my attack was very dangerous..."

That is exactly how Kramnik played yesterday against Nakamura when he found the precise defense, he doesn´t hesitate if he is convinced of his calculations. Topalov sounds like some sore loser, he blew the first two games because he made silly mistakes and then decided with his manager to go dirty dirty to somehow salvage the match the non-chess way. Also needless to say Kramnik was already at the top when computers weren´t nearly as strong as human players in the mid 90s and he is the guy who beat Kasparov. There is no need for him to cheat against the likes of Topalov lol.

Avatar of jo_uno79
"That is exactly how Kramnik played yesterday against Nakamura when he found the precise defense, he doesn´t hesitate if he is convinced of his calculations" yesterday when i was watching the game ... this Topalov situation came to my mind also :( maybe we are all getting paronoid these days
Avatar of Snookslayer

If it walks like a rat and smells like a rat, it's probably a rat. No wait, that's a duck. How do ya know when it's a sneaky Russian bear?

Avatar of Snookslayer

How has this been laid to rest?  They still play, yet one considers the other a cheater.   Odd.

Avatar of fabelhaft

I think the start of the whole thing was that Topalov was accused of cheating, before the match against Kramnik. Among others Kramnik's second Bareev meant that Topalov was cheating when he won the FIDE World Championship 2005, and several others suggested the same thing without being as clear as Bareev.