The Myth of Autism and Chess

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Ben-Lui

Oct 31, 2014

0

#61

oxovc wrote:

Ben-Lui wrote:

Optimissed wrote:

I do think that genius is subjective. Much of Mozart's output was absolutely and boringly repetitious. Some of it was original and excellent. I decided at one point that Jimi Hendrix used some of the same cadences as Mozart. He too could be dull at times and brilliant at others.

You realize that you're saying that there have never been any geniuses in the arts, because they're all a matter of taste?

No... he's saying their art isn't what makes them smart.. them being smart is what makes them smart.. their art is irrelevant to the discussion of intelligence because it's completely subjective.

You guys are so offtrack with regards to Art, Genius and "smartness" that it's just unbelievable.

awesomechess1729

Oct 31, 2014

0

#62

oxovc wrote:

awesomechess1729 wrote:

oxovc wrote:

awesomechess1729 wrote:

oxovc wrote:

Optimissed wrote:

I would slightly hesitantly proffer the "solution" that what is commonly called a photographic memory may be part of the larger set of what is termed "Eidetic memory".

Very bold... considering I posted a comment just oh.. 3 minutes ago saying the exact same thing...

Actually, you didn't. You said "photographic memory" didn't exist. Also, why are you arguing over so trivial a topic when a) you contradict yourself so that don't have to admit you are wrong b) there's already been enough arguing and it's almost all off topic.

Dude... can you not read? seriously... you have the comprehension of a 5 year old it's astonishing

You, on the other hand, have the ignorance and hypocrisy of most politicians. What exactly am I not understanding? You just contradicted yourself several times in your arguments. Go read over your own posts.

I haven't contradicted myself once.. you're just an idiot who isn't able to understand and then says "You're condradicting yourself!"

Go back and read literally every response I've sent to you and you HOPEFULLY will see you aren't actually understanding and will understand

I did. "Photographic memory hasn't been proved to exist" / "Photographic memory is a form of eidetic memory" "There isn't a single savant who doesn't have autism, and autism isn't a disability for savants or prodigies" / "Savants have mental deficits" etc.

Need I say more, or are you finally done arguing? I came onto this forum to clear things up for the people out there who thought autism and schizophrenia was the same thing. I thought people might stop arguing after that. Apparently I was wrong.

awesomechess1729

Oct 31, 2014

0

#63

oxovc wrote:

awesomechess1729 wrote:

oxovc wrote:

awesomechess1729 wrote:

oxovc wrote:

awesomechess1729 wrote:

oxovc wrote:

Optimissed wrote:

I would slightly hesitantly proffer the "solution" that what is commonly called a photographic memory may be part of the larger set of what is termed "Eidetic memory".

Very bold... considering I posted a comment just oh.. 3 minutes ago saying the exact same thing...

Actually, you didn't. You said "photographic memory" didn't exist. Also, why are you arguing over so trivial a topic when a) you contradict yourself so that don't have to admit you are wrong b) there's already been enough arguing and it's almost all off topic.

Dude... can you not read? seriously... you have the comprehension of a 5 year old it's astonishing

You, on the other hand, have the ignorance and hypocrisy of most politicians. What exactly am I not understanding? You just contradicted yourself several times in your arguments. Go read over your own posts.

I haven't contradicted myself once.. you're just an idiot who isn't able to understand and then says "You're condradicting yourself!"

Go back and read literally every response I've sent to you and you HOPEFULLY will see you aren't actually understanding and will understand

I did. "Photographic memory hasn't been proved to exist" / "Photographic memory is a form of eidetic memory" "There isn't a single savant who doesn't have autism, and autism isn't a disability for savants or prodigies" / "Savants have mental deficits" etc.

Need I say more, or are you finally done arguing? I came onto this forum to clear things up for the people out there who thought autism and schizophrenia was the same thing. I thought people might stop arguing after that. Apparently I was wrong.

Well those are obviously paraphrases and some are actually not even something i've said... I''ve highlighted the ones I haven't said.

I paraphrased the things you said, that's true... so why don't you read over your posts, considering I've already responded to the ignorant things you said, and you didn't deny them on the spot. I'm really sick and tired of dealing with people like you. I've run into quite a few people on chess.com who are not only hypocrites with poor defense for their "claims", but also belligerently and personally attack anyone who disagrees with their views and won't have it any other way. Let's call this argument off. You already said you conceded when I corrected you on your "young adult" definition.

awesomechess1729

Oct 31, 2014

0

#64

Optimissed wrote:

P.S. Autism and schizophrenia are probably different. However, there's some doubt whether either exist. Schizophrenia was apparently invented around the Second World War by an American body intending to provide some sort of material classification of the states of mind of a lot of messed up American soldiers. It can be argued, pretty convincingly some think, that it doesn't exist.

I don't really believe that.. especially as there have been thousands of cases of both in medicine, all fitting particular characteristics, and the "messed up American soldiers" probably had PTSD if that's what really happened. I guess it all goes back to how you define diagnosis, which is under a lot of questioning.

awesomechess1729

Oct 31, 2014

0

#65

oxovc wrote:

Okay... lets get this over with.. give me 10 minutes to collect all my quotes

Do you need me to show you the door or can you handle leaving by yourself?

baddogno

Oct 31, 2014

0

#66

Too bad we can't just all have a group hug and then go watch Rainman together.

awesomechess1729

Oct 31, 2014

0

#67

baddogno wrote:

Too bad we can't just all have a group hug and then go watch Rainman together.

Or Ocean Heaven, which actually portrays autism as a disability. Or since schizophrenia was supposed to be in here, A Beautiful Mind.

awesomechess1729

Oct 31, 2014

0

#68

Optimissed wrote:

I noted your comment. I've been involved in one or two discussions about misdiagnosis and schizophrenia, and the possibility of a "talking cure". Well, my wife's a psychotherapist, but also I know someone else on FB pretty well and as well as being a psychotherapist trained in the Rogerian technique, same as my wife, she has more of a psychoanalytic background and a couple of honourary doctorates. She is Jewish and practises in Manhattan. She completely agrees that the standard view of schizophrenia is incorrect. Or that they all are. I could introduce anyone who is interested but they would have to join a FB group.

I'm interested in this- I understand that for most disorders the DSM-V has it right, but there are some I think shouldn't be in there or are poorly defined. I think schizophrenia diagnosis is widely agreed on, but what do the people you talked to think is wrong with the standard diagnosis? Since psychology is such a newly formed medicine relatively speaking, I would be curious about what still needs to be changed in its practice.

awesomechess1729

Oct 31, 2014

0

#69

oxovc wrote:

Things you believe I've said:

"Photographic memory hasn't been proved to exist" < (actually did say this but you paraphrased) / "Photographic memory is a form of eidetic memory" "There isn't a single savant who doesn't have autism, and autism isn't a disability for savants or prodigies" / "Savants have mental deficits"

Things I've actually said:

ME: "There are MANY child prodigies (I would say all.. as I have never seen one that isn't) with autism or autistic traits... that's what makes them prodigious.. their narrow subject interests and repetitive behavior.."

You: "Not all savants have autism (take Kim Peek for example, who did not have autism despite popular belief), and having autism doesn't necessarily help you with being a savant"

ME: "You're confusing prodigy with savant...

Savants are people with cognitive deficits that have an extraordinary mental gift... Savants are not child prodigies nor geniuses... most sufferered a brain injury or epileptic seizure"

Definition of Savant: Savant syndrome is a condition in which a person with a mental disability, such as an autism spectrum disorder, demonstrates profound and prodigious capacities or abilities far in excess of what would be considered normal.[1][2][3] People with savant syndrome may have neurodevelopmental disorders, notably autism spectrum disorders, or brain injuries. The most dramatic examples of savant syndrome occur in individuals who score very low on IQ tests, while demonstrating exceptional skills or brilliance in specific areas, such as rapid calculation, art, memory, or musical ability.

Definition of Prodigy: a person, especially a young one, endowed with exceptional qualities or abilities.

There are only about 10 savants in the world and only one has autism... the rest are below average IQ "Idiot-savants"
He is a "prodigious savant"

You: "So you just called autism a "cognitive deficit", as you said before you had never heard of a person who was a savant who didn't have autism. I rest my case in your hypocrisy"

ME: "are you trolling... or..."

OPtimissed: "I was a child prodigy. Mathematics mainly, and a photographic memory."

ME: "Photographic memory has never been proven to exist... so...

There was one test done by the supposed husband of the person who had one but in different conditions under supervision she refused to do the tests again.

Eidetic memory on the other hand... has been proven to exist and I have it aswell."

You: ""Eidetic" and "photographic" memory are considered to be synonymous. You're just trying to "disprove" Optimissed's claim while supporting yours. Also I find it strange how everyone is posting that they have photographic memories..."

ME: "NO...No they are not...

"The popular culture concept of "photographic memory", where someone can briefly look at a page of text and then recite it perfectly from memory, is not the same as seeing eidetic images, and photographic memory has never been demonstrated to exist"

Can you please actually know what you're talking about before trying to correct me?

I have an eidetic memory..."

Optimissed: "I would slightly hesitantly proffer the "solution" that what is commonly called a photographic memory may be part of the larger set of what is termed "Eidetic memory"."

ME: "Very bold... considering I posted a comment just oh.. 3 minutes ago saying the exact same thing..."

YOU: "Actually, you didn't. You said "photographic memory" didn't exist. Also, why are you arguing over so trivial a topic when a) you contradict yourself so that don't have to admit you are wrong b) there's already been enough arguing and it's almost all off topic."

ME: "Dude... can you not read? seriously... you have the comprehension of a 5 year old it's astonishing "

YOU: "You, on the other hand, have the ignorance and hypocrisy of most politicians. What exactly am I not understanding? You just contradicted yourself several times in your arguments. Go read over your own posts."

ME: "I haven't contradicted myself once.. you're just an idiot who isn't able to understand and then says "You're contradicting yourself!"

Go back and read literally every response I've sent to you and you HOPEFULLY will see you aren't actually understanding and will understand"

ANd.... back to the top

YOU: "I did. "Photographic memory hasn't been proved to exist" / "Photographic memory is a form of eidetic memory" "There isn't a single savant who doesn't have autism, and autism isn't a disability for savants or prodigies" / "Savants have mental deficits" etc.

Need I say more, or are you finally done arguing? I came onto this forum to clear things up for the people out there who thought autism and schizophrenia was the same thing. I thought people might stop arguing after that. Apparently I was wrong."

You now look like an idiot... congratz!

No- "There are only 10 savants in the world and only one has autism"? Really? The eidetic/photographic memory was you contradicting yourself- seems as if you didn't look through that post too throughouly. Also, you didn't include the post where you said autism "isn't a disablility" for savants and that you had only heard of savants with autism (you just contradicted yourself again with the "there are only 10 savants.." quote), so unfortunately, I can't put that in bold.

Half of the things you said were insults. If I'm such an idiot, as you say, then why do you even care about what I have to say?

Captain_Coconut

Nov 1, 2014

0

#70

Captain_Coconut wrote:

I could spell out where I disagree with what's been said later. I've got to do the Halloween thing here soon, so it'll have to wait.

I came back to follow up on this, but apparently he took his ball and went home...

awesomechess1729

Nov 1, 2014

0

#71

Fiveofswords wrote:

if autism and schizphrenia are not disorders there would be no reason to diagnose them anyway

They are disorders, as they clearly cause problems in people affected with either, but the argument is over whether they are being diagnosed correctly.

awesomechess1729

Nov 1, 2014

0

#72

Fiveofswords wrote:

i would simply ask...since behaviorally schizoaffective disorder is identical to schizophrenia...how could you tell the difference between them?

I don't think they are identical- "schizoaffective" implies that the disorder has characteristics of both schizophrenia and bipolar disorder- but they might present similarly enough to be confused.

Ben-Lui

Nov 1, 2014

0

#73

Captain_Coconut wrote:

Captain_Coconut wrote:

I could spell out where I disagree with what's been said later. I've got to do the Halloween thing here soon, so it'll have to wait.

I came back to follow up on this, but apparently he took his ball and went home...

I untracked yesterday, just popped in for 30 sec to see how things were developing and don't regret my decision.

Benzodiazepine

Nov 1, 2014

0

#74

Tell you what, they told on my back that I'm outsistic. Then they wrote in my psychiatry alledgedly that I have psychotic symptoms. They ask me whether or not I hear voices; I tell them immediately, fuck you, I don't hear any voices and they ask me why I reply so fast, I told them because they ask me that question every time I see a new psychiatrist, then they prescribe me Quetiapine or Seroquel, name it however you want, just to shut me up.

Captain_Coconut

Nov 1, 2014

0

#75

Laypeople trying to argue about psychology is just about as silly as laypeople trying to argue about Lie algebra. In my experience, the average layperson doesn't know the first thing about it, but I always see people talking like they do, which they'll keep doing because the general public seems to share all the same popularized misconceptions.

Anyone trying to diagnose Fischer (or anyone else) based on the information available to the public deserves to be slapped with a herring. That would be a fitting punishment for such idiocy.

awesomechess1729

Nov 1, 2014

0

#76

It appears oxovc deleted all of his comments. I thought that's what he might do, considering he didn't want to be proved wrong.

Captain_Coconut

Nov 1, 2014

0

#77

rdecredico wrote:

Captain_Coconut wrote:

Laypeople trying to argue about psychology is just about as silly as laypeople trying to argue about Lie algebra.

And how are you so sure who here is 'laypeople' and who is not?

Fischer was an asshole and that diagnosis is allowed by anyone that is a person, lay or not.

It's patently obvious that someone is a layperson if they spout popular BS that anyone with an education knows is BS.

Yes, Fischer was an asshole, I don't think anyone would argue that and I don't think that was what was being argued.

Syd_Arthur

Nov 1, 2014

0

#78

Nope, oxoxxvc...no one remembers.

The comments are gone, and they were eminently forgettable anyway.

awesomechess1729

Nov 1, 2014

0

#79

oxoxxvc wrote:

I was banned for posting something derogatory on another thread...

Why would I go out of my way to delete my comments when the post your responding to disproves everything you've said...

You also clearly don't understand what "
Optimissed: "I would slightly hesitantly proffer the "solution" that what is commonly called a photographic memory may be part of the larger set of what is termed "Eidetic memory".""

means...

He's clearly saying "I was mistaken.. what I would assert is that what is commonly called photographic memory is really just eiditic memory"..

Which I did infact say 3 minute before... by saying..

"The popular culture concept of "photographic memory", where someone can briefly look at a page of text and then recite it perfectly from memory, is not the same as seeing eidetic images, and photographic memory has never been demonstrated to exist"

Again... Comprehension level of a 5 year old..

As for the comment about autism being a disability.. I clearly said "i'm not arguing that it isn't a disability... I'm arguing it's not a disability for EVERYONE"

Obviously... I can't prove this as my comments were deleted when I was banned .. but someone here surely remembers me saying that.

I still don't see how any disability isn't a disability "for everyone". Just because someone with a disability has talents doesn't mean that they don't also have challenges.

Dissociative Identity Disorder is synonymous with Mulitple Personality Disorder, the existence of which is heavily debated. Schizoaffective disorder vs. schizophrenia is what Fiveofswords was talking about, not DID or schizoid personality disorder.

Also, I thought we said this conversation was over. You said that I'm an an idiot multiple times, so why do you even care? The fact that you you got banned and came back to say more offensive things proves that you're trolling. This is not acceptable behavior on the internet, chess.com should ban your IP address. I'm not going to care about whatever left you have to say. However, I will report you if you keep personally insulting me (or anyone else), because you are not supposed to post anything "slanderous, threatening, or malicious to any user".

Syd_Arthur

Nov 1, 2014

0

#80

You do yammer on at times, ox.

Now go away again. Please.

I must admit I'm becoming frustrated with having to repeat myself.