The Psychology of Playing Chess

Tower_of_Joseph

18... Rxe8 19. Ne5 c5 20. Nd7 if my memory is correct, did not take my time on this move my excitement and overconfidence cost me dearly but N takes c5 should have seen at the speed of light and am stiil asking self how could you be so blind. What is the psychological barrier? 

20... Nd4 21. Rc1 blunder of blunders, a pure beginners move and for the life of me can not fathom how I missed caballo takes c5 threatening B as my counter to his threat on P on c2. My disgust was so great that it just affected the rest of my game not to mention that now opponent had clear advantage 

On both of these it could be one of several things – Overconfidence ( which you mentioned but may or may not be the cause of it) and with this one tends to believe in a line they have planned or just in the fact that they will magically see the right move – they will win so there isn't a need to nut it out like they would against a better player.....

Another could be you are so focused in one area you have subconsciously dismissed other areas or problems.

Or you get distracted by the game – wait a sec – how can you get distracted by a game you are playing? You start going through rehearsed moves ( Ie queens gambit – played it a zillion times so bang bang bang Bang Bang Bang omg wtf did I just do? Cause now you are in strife because you didn't pay attention to all his/her moves) or your opponent plays something unexpected and you focus on that piece etc almost to the exclusion of all others trying to figure out the why or what are they planning and how do I combat it …. basically losing site of the whole board.

I am assuming here you are not over tired or over stressed etc etc

Once we figure out the why we can look at tools and techniques to combat it :)

Robbiecoull

5... Bd6 (85m27) already struggling to come up with a sensible plan here, but develop the bishop (I considered Be7) and complete my development. HIARCS thinks this is best move too. -0.25/19 

Are you struggling to come up with a plan because you are out of your known comfort zone mentally or because emotions are starting to come into play??

7. d3 (86m00) very slow development of the center here. I have to be very careful as one of my major weaknesses is becoming frustrated in situations like this, which negatively affects my cognitive abilities, and making mistakes. I also have to be careful that knowing this makes me nervous and will affect my cognitive abilities!

SPOT ON here! Testing has shown there is a much higher chance of feeling an emotion when one thinks about being careful not to feel it. In these cases you will have a higher chance of getting through without having problems if you clear your mind when that comes in and don't focus on it – I will adress this more specifically as to how at the end.

13. Qc3? (81m32) developing the queen and completing development with tempo. Interestingly, at this point in the game I felt that I was losing control of the game and I was spending a lot of time while white was slowly building up. HIARCS, again remaining calm and not suffering from my self-doubts, thinks I'm clearly winning.

13... b6? (58m56) to prevent c5, which would have won a piece. c5 would have been better. HIARCS agrees and thinks e4 was marginally better than that. HIARCS says this is when the game went from me winning to white winning, and it never went back again. I allowed my frustration and self-doubt in a type of position that I have a history of making mistakes in to retard my cognitive abilities (how did I not see c5 here?). (Another possibility is that I have good insight into how bad I am at claustrophibic positions and I should have used that insight to open the position up to something I prefer

How exactly did this manifest? Could you not see the correct move because you could not focus? Were you trying to figure out too many lines and got muddled? Were blinders on and you just pain didn't see it? Did you see it and discard the move? Was there any time pressure?? Or??

14... Nc6 (57m36) preventing c5 again! Aargh! What was I thinking? By this time my frustration is getting to me and I'm expecting to lose (as I have often before in claustrophobic positions!)

Ok is claustrophobic conditions the same as a closed board? If not can you let me know the difference? :) We have 2 issues here the frustration and the problem with claustrophobic conditions. For the frustration there are techniques to let it out ( without getting kicked out of a tournament or looked at as if you are mad) and then release it so it doesn't mess up your next move. (see the end of this post )

I suspect we can get you to a point where maybe you still don't like claustrophobic games but you can deal with them without strife …

15. Rac1 (73m14 - 20% of time in the 1st 15 moves would be 72m, so spot on for Yamaduta time management)I didn't take long enough to look at the implications of this move (see below). I was aware that I was using up too much time by playing too slow and wrongly assumed this was not a critical move.

Ok in this situation – try to use the clearing or letting thoughts pass techniques and focus on the move and the time left – not what brought you to that situation and you may find your mental clarity is better.

15... Re7? (57m27 - 20% of time in the 1st 15 moves would be 72m so I am playing way too slow) Blunder, missing the threat of the c file battery. Much better was Nd8 and not nearly as bad was Rac8.

Were you pressuring yourself over time and that is why the blunder?

Ok now for a couple techniques that can help you in certain situations and we can look at more after you get back to me on the questions above.

Clear mind and letting thoughts pass

Ok when you are in a situation and you are finding yourself thinking – ok I usually feel such and such and I can't let it mess with me – or you are muddled and can't figure out the possibilities – clearing the mind will help you. There are a few ways to do this:

1 Blank Slate – Close your eyes and see a black wall in front of you and take 5 – 10 ( depending on time and need) slow deep breaths and release... at the end of the deep breaths tell yourself you have just sat down and are taking over someone elses game... open your eyes and analyse the position they have left for you... remember this is someone elses game which you have not been watching and no previous moves matter – just where the board sits now.

Letting thoughts pass through your mind - to practice this light a candle or sit down and look at an inanimate object – focus completely on what you are looking at... thoughts will start coming in – wonder what's for dinner, the dog just came in, when is my girlfriend going to write me back .. you get the picture .. when these ome in give them a mental nod then let them go – concentrate on what you are looking at – don't think about it – none of this the wax is melting, the flame sure is purdy, oh look a puff of wind made it move – if any of that comes in give it the mental nod acknowledging it then let it float out – do NOT hold onto it. Imagine the thoughts are clouds just passing by. Then when you are OTB and unwanted thoughts start you can just give them a mental nod and let them pass on by....

Releasing frustration – There are a couple ways I recommend for this – think of something that releases huge energy and then has no more to release till it builds up again – Like a Dragon – close your eyes and not only watch the dragon breathe fire but feed that fire with your frustrations – this is basically a mental ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG ( with a few cuss words :P ) Then once the fire is out – your frustrations are released and you can go about the game with a cool head.

Another way is a mental scream – a what you may ask?? Ok what happens if you are in a church or a maternity ward of a hospital with tons of sleeping babies around you and you stub your toe??? You hold it in and no a mental scream or 6 and then you are able to open your mouth without waking all the babies or getting thrown out of church..... This is the second technique I recommend for frustration :)

mine goes up too!!!!!

I'm thinking that a greater emphasis on the chess, the moves, the annotations to the moves made by the player/submitter of the game, and a decreased emphasis on suggestions of techniques, will likely improve the quality of conversation on here.

Also, acknowledging what somebody has posted, and responding to that will also help the conversational quality of the thread. 

42Flaming and QTKO, better to not place yourselves as resident experts on a field you're not experts in, and instead be open to submitting your own games where you struggled with emotional/impulsive barriers to making the best moves. That would also integrate you into the conversation more holistically. 

Sombodysson I am studying Psychology at University and am nearing completion - I also ran this by my Proffessor as I said I would and he IS an expert in the feild. He knew what I was doing here and he spent his time helping me to make sure I wasn't giving anyone a bum steer. I thought you wanted expert oppinions which is why I offered to help because I have acess to an expert and have knowledge myself. I did not spend hours between my research, talking to my Professor and working on the games to be disrespected when it was explained by me and my husband that I am studying Psychology and would be involving my Professor.

I am sorry I missunderstood what you wanted......

BTW I ONLY speak for myself NOT my husband...

42FlamingZombies wrote

On both of these it could be one of several things – Overconfidence ( which you mentioned but may or may not be the cause of it) and with this one tends to believe in a line they have planned or just in the fact that they will magically see the right move – they will win so there isn't a need to nut it out like they would against a better player.....

Another could be you are so focused in one area you have subconsciously dismissed other areas or problems.

Yes, your comments reinforce and. are helpful to me anyway so that I can come with a strategy to null these psychological impediments and make better chess moves in critical situations. Appreciate.

42Flaming: I wasn't disrespecting, I was commenting on what would produce the richest conversational dynamic. A dynamic with one or two specialists and everyone else receiving advice from them does not produce the best conversational dynamic. I never wrote anything about receiving 'expert opinions'. If I wanted expert opinions I would have asked somebody else to lead this group. But I was asked to lead it, because of my demonstrated skill at leading rich conversations. And, as aronchuck has pointed out, there is very very little of expert opinion when it comes to the psychology of chess playing. There is psychology, which your professor may have expertise in, and there is chess playing, where many great chess players have expertise in, but the psychology of chess playing is a relatively undeveloped field, and this thread will be a furthering that work. Not from a stance of 'knowing' but precisely the opposite, from a stance of 'unknowing'. That's how one is open to discovery. 

42Flaming: why don't you submit a game of yours where emotions played a role in your choice of moves?  I have requested this of participants repeatedly, and some have submitted, which is great, and I await your submission. Emotions must play a role in some of your games, right? Why don't you submit your experience to the thread?

I wrote a few times that the focus of this thread should be the chess first, not the psychology.  Focusing on the psychology already shows what it produces; a grab bag of people offering everything from how to eat, how to drink, how to exercise, how to feel, existential philisophies of life...i.e. things one could read in any pulp psychology magazine or reader's digest in any corner of the world.

I responded to TOj and RObbieCoull's annotations with my own comments spec. to ToJs move 21.  which addresses his apparent underconfidence, not overconfidence, and you ignored my comment and  submitted your own. That was disrespectful, as you didn't even indicate that you had read what I had written.

That's why I wrote in a post above that we should read each other's posts, and respond to them. Otherwise, without acknowledging each other's input we're just talking heads talking at each other, instead of with each other.  

I think that if you try to join in to the conversation as an equal, open to learning and asking for help you will enjoy increased benefits from it. 

Welcome. 

btw, I would never assume that someone is speaking for someone else, unless they said so.

and one more thing, and I'll leave it cryptic because I'm not about to reveal personal information: don't assume you know what other anonymous posters' field of expertise is or isn't. We're here from all walks of life, playing chess. When I'm here I'm not working, I'm playing chess and learning. If when I was on this thread I was working at my field of professional expertise this would be an entirely different thread.  just sayin'. Chess is a great leveler. Whatever someone's field of expertise is outside of the chessclub or the chess thread is almost irrelevant; it is the moves that matter, and the comments on the moves. At my chess club there are 7 year olds who beat 50 year olds week after week, despite the fact that the 50 year olds are experts in a half dozen or more fields that the 7 year olds couldn't even pronounce. Another thing that happens at my chess club is the players who are 1300-1500, i.e. not very good but a lot better than me, talk very confidently in post mortems about 'this wins' or 'that wins'. A few times I have taken their analyses home and submitted it to computer, and they were wrong in 100% of the cases, terribly wrong. So confidence qua emotional state means nothing in chess, except that it feels better than lack of confidence. The moves and the verifiable annotations are the great leveler. When confidence or lack of it informs the moves we make...that is what we are interested in. 

So, let's establish our expertise here, on the thread, by the quality of our comments, by the quality of our conversational and annotational 'moves'. That's the only thing that makes any sense to me. 

Sombodysson, my apologies to you, but I thought I would express my thanks to 42FlamingZombies and while am at it to you too, Your

two threads are very interesting and helpful. Thanks.

you don't need to apologize to me to thank 42 Flaming!

so, to be clear. We should talk chess, chess moves, particular chess positions and moves, and our annotations should reflect, precisely as RobbieCoull had done,  and my notes to  ToJs move 21., our emotional state as we were faced with the moves and positions. Aronchuck's dilemmas are a variant of this; its all about 'mind games', mind games that we experience as we're playing chess. Annotated games with annotations of our mind games, and stories of games where we were offered a draw by a superior or inferior player. etc. will also fit neatly into this category of mind games while playing chess. 

If we let this be a grab bag of generic advice-giving the thread will devolve quickly. It is precisely by rooting the conversation in specific games and specific moves that we will have a chance of using this thread to improve our game. 

cheers!

Sombodysson -

I will make this as brief as I can and in point form.

1 - 42Flaming and QTKO, better to not place yourselves as resident experts on a field you're not experts in -

This is extremely disrespectful and rude – I explained my Psychology background and that I would be consulting an Expert. QxKoops never claimed he knew Psychology nor gave Psychological advice – in fact he mentioned the he doesn't suffer from OTB pressure which is why he brought me in. You have made the wrong assumption.

2 - I came in to help,  openly willing to use what I have learned at Uni and consult my Professor to help people in this thread that is called “Psychology of Playing Chess”. I even explained how I would do it and asked you for emotionally annotated games. I have done what I said I would and then you have said it is not enough about Chess when I am specifically targeting problems suffered in Chess. And that it is not what you want. If you think rich conversation can not take place around Pstchological problems in chess there you are wrong. These days many people suffer from “Lets leave the truth out so that we can get more people involved.” In the end there is a lot of tooing and froing and not much helpful learned

3 – I never intended to hurt your feelings by not answering your posts. Your posts were stand alone – they were your opinions and didn't need or ask for a response. This was not disrespectful this was acknowledging that you had your own stand alone opinions and didn't need me butting in to pat your head or to challenge you. In a forum to expect everyone to respond to every post is unrealistic. Many people do not have the time or inclination to do this. If a post catches my eye I will respond. If a post needs a response I will respond.

4 – At one stage you mentioned you wanted to look at this holistically – holistically means taking in the whole – so this would entail the body as well as the mind. Things such as the best things to eat and when, how hydrated you should be, the best clothing to wear as well as Psychology. This is not what you want at all so you may want to change that stance,

5 -  Focusing on the psychology already shows what it produces; a grab bag of people offering everything from how to eat, how to drink, how to exercise, how to feel, existential philisophies of life...i.e. things one could read in any pulp psychology magazine or reader's digest in any corner of the world.

You have now insulted the other people that have in good faith posted on this thread regarding what they do or their opinion on what to do.

6 – I do not assume anyone’s expertise – but I was brought in because there was no one with a Psychological background or access to an Expert that was stepping up to the plate. So I did it is that simple. If there is someone else with Experience in Psychology I would love to have worked with them!

7 – After reading all of your posts again I am uncertain why you started a thread with the word Psychology in it as you do not want Psychology. I am uncertain of what you do want but it is clear it isn't Psychology. I will not be posting any of my games in this thread as I see nothing to be gained by it.

8 – To briefly address the most recent part of your post – I did show my expertise in my field by working on 2 emotionally annotated games.

I will leave you to your thread but I do want to thank you for getting me interested in the Psychology of Chess. I may start my own thread on what I thought I was being brought in here for.

Tower_of_Joseph

Your very welcome - if you have any questions in the future feel free to meessage me :)

Great topic.

The psychology of playing online is quite different from playing in person for me. 

Playing against opponents who are better than you is a fertile ground for exploration along this line; I usually try to play against people with a higher rating so I have a lot of experience losing; it's actually quite educational, and good for me; learning ego-mastery by learning to lose gracefully (online). 

Yeah; it's a free chess lesson.

There's also the psychology of chess during the game; how one deals with time pressure; how one reacts when in unfamiliar positions. etc etc. 

@42Flaming:

Yes, I thought it made more sense for you to start your own thread, as you clearly didn't want to support my facilitation of this one. 

1. Yes, saying that you are not an expert in the field of the psychology of playing chess is neither disrespectful nor rude. You're what, a 1200 in chess? How could you possibly be an expert in anything to do with chess? And you're now studying Psychology? Does that make you an expert in Psychology? Not from where I come from. You're a student of Psychology, and you're a beginning chess player. We have one thing in common, as beginner chess players. You are also a beginner Psychologist, who, it seems, has not graduated yet, and wants to be respected for results you have not yet earned. 

I addressed this issue further when I referenced aronchuck's observation that very very little has been done in the field of psychology and chess. Probably the most interesting and thorough work in this field was done by de Groot; I wonder if you've read this material?  Have you studied de Groot's "Thought and Choice In Chess' the forerunner of all work in Psychology of Chess Playing? Have you written anything remotely like de Groot's work? Or, for that matter, Heisman's 'The Improving Chess Thinker'? Or, even, for that matter, Hendrik's  'Move First Think Later'? If you had, it probably would have showed by now. It didn't. That's not disrespectful. That's merely not granting someone the title of 'specialist' just because they want to be granted specialist status. In chess, respect is earned, not granted. aronchuck has earned our respect. jojojopo has earned our respect, wasted_youth has earned our respect. You haven't yet, and it looks like you're not going to try to earn it. That's your perogative, of course. 

4. I never said I wanted 'to look at this holistically'. I suggested, quite specifically, that if you come into the thread as an equal participant in the thread who posts your experiences and struggles with your internal life with chess instead of as a self-styled specialist you will more holistically integrate into the thread. I now understand that you didn't want, and don't want to be integrated into the thread as an equal; you want to practice your new Psychology knowledge, and your tips from your professor. That's not the kind of integrated participation that leads to a rich conversational experience.

But speaking of 'holistically' and your misunderstanding of the term...body and mind are not two separate things. Mind is rooted in body; without body there is no mind. Mind is a concept, not a 'thing', except insofar as 'concepts are things', which is not how 'thing' is usually used. So we don't have to include talk about hydration, blood glucose, or meditation in order to 'holistically' talk about the psychology of chess playing; the moves, and the thoughts and feelings experienced otb will be more than enough for us. 

5. If I have 'insulted' other people who posted 'in good faith' about glucose, exercise, visualization with candles, etc., that's too bad, and I hope they will eventually understand that I'm very specific in my understanding of the word 'psychology of chess playing'. I was asked to start this thread, and that means I decide what I'm looking for on the thread, and neither glucose, not candles nor visualization fit. That's not an insult to the posters, but an adherence to an agenda which I started, and was asked to start. This is a chess site, and a chess thread. For people who want to talk about those other subjects the world wide web is full of talk of such subjects. 

6. Your assumption that no one here has psychological expertise is inaccurate. Also, you say you were "brought in"  because of your psychology background. I didn't bring anybody in.  As far as I'm concerned you came in of your own accord. If by 'brought in' you mean your husband brought you in with assurances that you would be the resident psychology expert, I suggest you take that up with him; he may have led you astray. We didn't need any psychology expert on here. We needed, as I've written several times, people who wanted to share their games and their experiences of their games as impacted by their inner life, and for us to explore the connection. In my introduction to this thread I never put out the call for specialists. 

7. You say you don't know why I started a thread called Psychology when I clearly don't want Psychology. Frankly, it seems to me that it is you who doesn't really understand what Psychology means, and you confuse psychology with physiology on the one hand, and with buddhism on the other. The word Psychology has gone through some radical transformations over the last fifty and sixty years. Sixty years ago psychology was psychoanalysis. 40 years ago it was behaviorism. 30 years ago was the beginning of the death throes of behaviourism. and 15 years ago we witnessed 2 new types of psychology, one which some called new age psychology, and which you seem to demonstrate some of with your candles and visualizations...some of this psychology is connected with mindfulness meditation, some with religion and buddhism and the benefits religion seems to confer on practitioners...and another, called by some 'cognitive psychology' which is mainly brain chemistry, brain neurology, and latter-day behaviourism focussed on learning...psychology doesn't know what it is anymore, and there are several fights going on within the discipline to define what psychology is and isn't. You certainly don't have the last word on what consitutues and what doesn't constitute psychology, esp. since you are still studying and have not even graduated yet.  And see my second paragraph to 4. above for more about the false duality of body and mind. 

8.You have expertise in the field of chess and psychology? As evidenced by your recopying the bulk of the notes from two annotated games and writing "Spot On"!? Is that what you mean by your 'psychology expertise'? Or is that you chess expertise?

Frankly, you are a beginner Psychologist and a beginner chess player. This may have been a place you could have grown by participating in and benefitting from rich conversation, but I see that you expected special status, and you may have been regrettably led to believe you would immediately and automatically get that.  I understand how that might produce feelings of hurt, but it is hurt that you were set-up for by being led to have ungrounded expectations. 

3. You did not hurt my feelings in the least. Probably, more likely, your feelings have been hurt. But it is not I who hurt them. It seems to me that you were expecting something that I never promised you, and you are hurt that you didn't get it. 

Best of luck in your chess and in your studies. 

wall of text

mee too! I have a LOt of experience playing people who are better than me! And I have raised to a HIGh ARt the skill in losing gracefully. Now I want to learn how to win MAsterfully!

and yes, time pressure, and how to prevent it...I think that's important...preventing it is paramount. Because once you're in time pressure, there's little you can do except, speed up. Perhaps a more streamlined thought process might make sense, but more likely pattern recognition will take front seat. 

do any people have difficulty playing people who are worse than them/ The few times I have played people who were worse than me I felt bad for them; if they were kids I was afraid they'd cry or feel bad. If they were grown ups I was afraid they'd feel depressed. And I know I can stomach defeat better than most; so I have definitely been aware of deciding to throw a game because I figured I could take the defeat better than the opponent could.  I want help with this. I want to embrace WINNING! 

In the bigger scheme of things,chess is just a game and we should all treat it that way! What stress?