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The strongest chess playing country in the world is...?

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NimzoRoy
What nation would you say is the strongest chess-playing nation in the world?  BTW the first 2 lists inc 134 nations but I only pasted the TOP TEN here, and the TOP TEN out of the TOP TWENTY "Most Olympic Chess Medals"

Men, active only: Country rank by average rating of top 10 players http://ratings.fide.com/topfed.phtml?tops=0&ina=1&country=

 

Average

GMs

IMs

Total Titled

 

1

Russia

2746

216

500

2175

 

2

Ukraine

2702

80

197

493

 

3

China

2670

31

26

125

 

4

France

2663

47

94

356

 

5

Armenia

2663

34

25

95

 

6

Hungary

2661

52

108

420

 

7

United States of America

2655

77

120

579

 

8

Azerbaijan

2651

20

17

79

 

9

India

2636

29

76

219

 

10

Poland

2635

35

101

332

 

Women, active only:  Country rank by average rating of top 10 players

 

Average

GMs

IMs

Total Titled

 

1

China

2477

31

26

125

 

2

Russia

2468

216

500

2175

 

3

Georgia

2431

26

39

113

 

4

Ukraine

2413

80

197

493

 

5

India

2383

29

76

219

 

6

Hungary

2377

52

108

420

 

7

Poland

2352

35

101

332

 

8

Germany

2350

80

233

1196

 

9

France

2340

47

94

356

 

10

United States of America

2326

77

120

579

 

Most Chess Olympic Medals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_Olympiads

1  Soviet Union 18 1 0 19
2  Russia 6 3 1 10
3  United States 5 5 9 19
4  Hungary 3 6 2 11
5  Armenia 3 0 3 6
6  Ukraine 2 1 3 6
7  Yugoslavia 1 6 5 12
8  Poland 1 2 3 6
9  Germany* 1 1 3 5
10  England 0 3 3 6
sapientdust

It all depends on how you define "strongest", but in terms of top 10 players' ratings, obviously it's Russia for men's chess, as it is for number of titled players, IMs, and GMs. 

Russia seems to have the highest number of players in the top 10 (3 Russians), top 20 (6 Russians), and top 100 (25 Russians), and I would expect the pattern holds for 1000 too. I suspect that Russia will be top for most reasonable measures.

APawnCanDream

I'd be interested to see how the countries fare by population and number of titled players/olympic medals ratio. I'd guess Armenia would be top three, possibly first or second with that criteria.

NimzoRoy

sapientdust I can't argue with your reasoning here, BUT

I deliberately omitted a definition here, because my answer is going to be a "trick" answer that may not go over much better than the proverbial lead balloon

NimzoRoy

Party pooper!

POPULATION: 313,183 (July 2012 est.)   country comparison to the world: 179  

Total (inactive inclusive): 344 FIDE rated players  Total : 269 FIDE rated players


Below statistics is valid for active players only:

Scottrf

These per capita comparisons are nonsense that favour small countries with a few outliers.

If a tiny country gets one gold in archery they will have a better per capita Olympics than China if China pick up every other medal. Even more ridiculous when you consider than you can only have a limited amount of entrants per event and they aren't suited to every one.

It's a little better for chess but still pretty meaningless.

Scottrf

Maybe, but it's always small countries that are favoured in per capita statistics.

NimzoRoy
Scottrf wrote:

Maybe, but it's always small countries that are favoured in per capita statistics.

Iceland seems to be tremendously favored. Take a look at the complete list with 134 nations and see how many small (and not so small) nations have only a handful or even zero GMs, IMs or even FMs.   Iceland has 51 titled players out of 313,000 people, I haven't done the math for the other 133 nations but there's something deeper going on here than "small countries favored in per capita statistics" - IMHO. BTW many yrs ago when Iceland only had a measly 4 GMs out of about 250,000 total population they also blew away everyone else in the GM per capita dept, by a huge margin. 

Scottrf

Yes, they are obviously a good chess playing country, I wasn't suggest anything else, nor saying that merely being small will mean you're likely to be near the top. Just that a country like China, USA, Russia etc couldn't compete.

blake78613

My understanding is that in Russia there is very little in the way of organized chess for adult amateurs.  My information however is very dated and definitely pre-internet.  

RussellFaraday
NimzoRoy wrote:
Scottrf wrote:

Maybe, but it's always small countries that are favoured in per capita statistics.

Iceland seems to be tremendously favored. Take a look at the complete list with 134 nations and see how many small (and not so small) nations have only a handful or even zero GMs, IMs or even FMs.   Iceland has 51 titled players out of 313,000 people, I haven't done the math for the other 133 nations but there's something deeper going on here than "small countries favored in per capita statistics" - IMHO. BTW many yrs ago when Iceland only had a measly 4 GMs out of about 250,000 total population they also blew away everyone else in the GM per capita dept, by a huge margin. 

http://www.chessbase.com/columns/column.asp?pid=3

topJKMonkey

Russia being in first is no surprise since they've dominated the game of chess since its inception, but Ukraine at number 2? Didn't see that one coming.

 

 

royalbishop
topJKMonkey wrote:

Russia being in first is no surprise since they've dominated the game of chess since its inception, but Ukraine at number 2? Didn't see that one coming.

 

 

 

If the world wanted to over take the Russians they take their coaches. This has been done in Gymnastics and produced great results. Just take a look at the teams at the top in the Olympic Gymnastics and look at the coaches. Even some of the players. Look how many athletets leave their country to train where the elite train.

nameno1had

without a consideration for popularity and importance, per capita arguments also carry less weight...

blake78613
Pen2da_Pixel wrote:
topJKMonkey wrote:

Russia being in first is no surprise since they've dominated the game of chess since its inception, but Ukraine at number 2? Didn't see that one coming.

 

 

 

Russia hasn't dominated Chess 'since its inception.'   Ever heard of Damiano, Greco, Lucena, etc?  The Mediterraneans dominated chess for hundreds of years until the modern era. 

The first Russian player of international repute was Petroff, who didn't come around until the early 1800's.

Get your facts straight.

You really cannot talk about international chess until the rules were standardized for international play in the 1800s (especially the stalemate and castling rules).  The Mediterraneans dominated Western chess literature, but that was largely superior PR and constructed games.  Players like Greco certainly had an eye for combinations, but no conception of how to play until he spotted a combination.

GertiX

A  L  B  A  N  I  A

Yereslov

Ukraine is really more remarkable, since chess is a favorite past time there, yet gets little support from the government. I was unable to find a chess club in Kiev on my visit there.

It's the main reason why Karjakin changed citizenship. He felt that Russia had more to offer chess players.

landwehr

russia always has been as long as I been playing chess

Yereslov
mendez1996 wrote:

give us about 30 years for chess to actually become more popular in schools and we will produce the best just like at everything

Another obnoxious American nationalist...

NimzoRoy
Yereslov wrote:
mendez1996 wrote:

give us about 30 years for chess to actually become more popular in schools and we will produce the best just like at everything

Another obnoxious American nationalist...

I agree with Yereslov's sentiment BUT equating "American" with "USA" is also a form of obnoxious "USA nationalism" IMHO there are a few dozen other "American" nations in North, South and Central AMERICA. BTW I'm a "US American" myself