I think he held delusional beliefs, so I don't think insane is an unfair word, even if it's not thought of as a nice word.
Being paranoid and anti-social would be enough.
Although I suppose in society there are acceptable and unacceptable delusions.
The truth about Dr. Frank Brady and Fischer
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Dec 15, 2014
0
#43
He turned to bizarre behavior, which is often what people take for "madness". I totally agree about the challenges in his life.
About never hurting anyone, well, he offended many (especially people who previously admired him) with his various rantings - which were in some cases transmitted live, so no danger of "falsifying" or "sensationalism". I'm not sure if it counts as "hurting" in your universe.
About not killing anyone - that's too lax a criteria to judge sanity thereupon... suffice it to say that many people are psychotic without coming to the physical fact of killing, or even physically hurting anyone. Psychosis manifests in the intention to harm, and this doesn't have to be done through physical violence.
Of course I never met Fischer, so I wouldn't judge on his sanity this way or that. About his brilliance there is no question - but also brilliant people can turn psychotic, in the face of too much adversity in their lives.
The craziest people, are those who are apparently "sane" and may even sound good and reasonable, but who secretly and very busily create madness in others, as they're secretly afraid of people and feel that they need to diminish them, on a hugely compulsive (but VERY conscious) level.
Fischer definitely doesn't belong in this extremely sad category.
I think he held delusional beliefs, so I don't think insane is an unfair word, even if it's not thought of as a nice word.
SK: I'm on the other side of you here.
My mother once told me that the manager of her apartment complex was putting LSD into the air she was breathing. To that end she had rented an industrial-strength air purifier to safeguard her sanity.
My mother was insane and we had to commit her. Fischer wasn't in that category.
I don't know what we do with Fischer. He wasn't stark raving.
But Something Was Wrong.
All stark raving is insane but not all insane is stark raving,
is my thinking.
Dec 15, 2014
0
#46
<Shell_knight> +1. But no clear-cut conclusions from me re. Fischer on this point.
All stark raving is insane but not all insane is stark raving,
is my thinking.
SK: Not helpful.
You disagreed via an argument, and I attacked the argument. It may not be helpful, but it's germane.
LouisCreed wrote:
In a Fischer interview that I read, Fischer stated that he was an all a round genius that became good at Chess.
I often hear people claim that Fischer was autistic, but he has none of the characteristics of autism that usually shows signs early in life, although there are a few rare cases of late onset, but in I don't believe Fischer had autism. People assume because he was so brilliant that he must be a savant or autistic.
robbie_1969 wrote:
Dr.Brady has to my knowledge written two books about R.J.Fischer, Profile of a prodigy and Endgame. Its particularly this last tome that has aroused my curiosity, for in the title Dr.Brady intimates that Fischer descended into insanity (he calls it madness). If anyone has read this (personally I refuse to do so) what empirical medical evidence does Dr. Brady cite with which to substantiate the claim that Fischer was as he put it 'on the edge of madness', for personally I have never heard nor read of any credible medical diagnosis.
My first question is if you are passionate about this topic why not read 'Endgame'? I read 'Profile' about 15 years ago and Endgame last month. 'Endgame' is close enough to it that I wasn't sure I hadn't read it before. I would treat 'Endgame' as simply the updated 'Prodigy' adding his life post 1975 to the text as well as some more detail about Regina Fischer. Brady certainly does not offer any clinical diagnosis of Fischer though there are many interviews with medical professionals throughout as many were acquaintances in Fischer's usually brief circles. A clinical diagnosis would be very difficult to find since Fischer was notoriously wary of Doctors.
Overall, I found Brady's treatment of Fischer in both books to be balanced to the point of conservative. Certainly more conservative than Fischer's autobiographical "I Was Tortured in the Pasadena Jaihouse!" or any of his many post 1993 interviews.
"...To the Edge of Madness." is playing it safe. "...Stark Raving Mad" might have been my assessment.
Overall, I would recommend both of Brady's books for anyone that wants a fairly detailed study of Fischer's life and those around him. Neither books were a roasting of Fischer's character or a justification of his personal views. Brady does appear to simply try and illustrate Fischer as Fischer was.
You disagreed via an argument, and I attacked the argument. It may not be helpful, but it's germane.
SK: Germane is a very low bar.
I knew my mother was crazy and she was. My mother also believed a group of young men were following her in white panel vans and the pattern of planes flying over her meant something.
In comparison Fischer was more like someone who believed JFK was killed by a conspiracy, as apparently the majority of Americans do, but was otherwise functional.
Crappov wrote:
robbie_1969 wrote:
Crappov wrote:
OperationOverlord wrote:
There is no debate about Fisher being Jewish. Both of his parents were Jewish.
Of course Bobby Fisher had mental problems. Do some research and you will find psychiatrists stating so.
And yes Fisher denied the holocaust. You can find him denying it on YouTube.
Also, Fischer believed that he was personally the target of a malign Jewish conspiracy. He was delusional and paranoid, at the very least.
It doesn't take a medical degree to discern the obvious.
Evidence if you please.
I think you're trolling. The evidence is there, if you just look. I have neither the time nor the inclination to do this for you.
This thread is about Dr. Brady and Fischer, now if you cannot get that correct i don't hold out much hope for you. The fact of the matter is, as others have acknowledged, is that Brady produces very few facts if any to substantiate his claim that Fischer was driven to , 'the edge of madness' Finally i don't want you to do anything for me, i am perfectly capable of doing my own research and I have merely asked those who know anything about it (that evidently excludes you) to contribute what they know. It is not trolling, it is an honest appeal for evidence and reason and if the best you can offer is to reduce it to a personal level then i suggest that this is not the thread for you.
batgirl wrote:
That's true, notmtwain. Dr. Brady talks about the media having used Fischer's disheveled and homeless appearance as "proof" of his insanity defining him through what Brady called the "Bobby Fischer Urban Legend Storybook."
He didn't actually say Fischer's fillings bother him, but rather that Fischer felt that fillings were toxic and would evenutally destroy his teeth and health, so he had them removed. Eating without fillings bothered him, but he felt it was still better than losing all his teeth as he aged.
The OP admittedly never read Brady's book, yet seems to feel qualified to critique them and to berate the author.
I actually like Fischer, the poor, fatherless boy and self-made champion. But the man he became is a rather sad comparison and being blind to Fischer's failings is as bad as not recognizing his amazing abilities.
I have made two claims regarding Dr. Brady.
1. That he did not know Fischer later in life, contrary to the claim that you and others have made elsewhere that he knew Fischer 'intimately', for that I substsiated it from an article that I had read elsewhere regarding Fischers dipsleasure with Dr. Brady after the publication of his first book.
2. That Dr.Brady has no rational basis for concluding that Fischer was, 'on the edge of madness '. For this I dont need to read Bradys book, I can listen to radio interviews given by Fischer himself, read what Fischer has written himself and make an evaluation.
_Number_6 wrote:
robbie_1969 wrote:
Dr.Brady has to my knowledge written two books about R.J.Fischer, Profile of a prodigy and Endgame. Its particularly this last tome that has aroused my curiosity, for in the title Dr.Brady intimates that Fischer descended into insanity (he calls it madness). If anyone has read this (personally I refuse to do so) what empirical medical evidence does Dr. Brady cite with which to substantiate the claim that Fischer was as he put it 'on the edge of madness', for personally I have never heard nor read of any credible medical diagnosis.
My first question is if you are passionate about this topic why not read 'Endgame'? I read 'Profile' about 15 years ago and Endgame last month. 'Endgame' is close enough to it that I wasn't sure I hadn't read it before. I would treat 'Endgame' as simply the updated 'Prodigy' adding his life post 1975 to the text as well as some more detail about Regina Fischer. Brady certainly does not offer any clinical diagnosis of Fischer though there are many interviews with medical professionals throughout as many were acquaintances in Fischer's usually brief circles. A clinical diagnosis would be very difficult to find since Fischer was notoriously wary of Doctors.
Overall, I found Brady's treatment of Fischer in both books to be balanced to the point of conservative. Certainly more conservative than Fischer's autobiographical "I Was Tortured in the Pasadena Jaihouse!" or any of his many post 1993 interviews.
"...To the Edge of Madness." is playing it safe. "...Stark Raving Mad" might have been my assessment.
Overall, I would recommend both of Brady's books for anyone that wants a fairly detailed study of Fischer's life and those around him. Neither books were a roasting of Fischer's character or a justification of his personal views. Brady does appear to simply try and illustrate Fischer as Fischer was.
I simply don't trust Dr. Brady. Strange as it may seem to purchase his book would be to me a betrayal of Fischers memory. If there is a copy in my local library i may need to read it in order to see for myself the extent of his pandering to public opinion, or the extent of his tabloid journalism, but it wont be pretty. Never the less i think its an evil necessity that i must do so and I thank you for the admonition.
I was lucky enough to grow up in the "Fischer Era" & followed him right up to his death. His personality & life story are so complex that all you can do to understand him is to read & watch Everything & make your own judgment from there. I have read Endgame & while it may not be a definitive Fischer analysis it does give certain perspectives that only the Author could provide. It just a piece in a larger puzzle.
"Dr.Brady has no rational basis for concluding that Fischer was, 'on the edge of madness '. For this I dont need to read Bradys book, I can listen to radio interviews given by Fischer himself"
Have you listened to any of these interviews?
http://www.heretical.com/miscella/fischer.html
robbie_1969 wrote:.
I simply don't trust Dr. Brady. Strange as it may seem to purchase his book would be to me a betrayal of Fischers memory. If there is a copy in my local library i may need to read it in order to see for myself the extent of his pandering to public opinion, or the extent of his tabloid journalism, but it wont be pretty. Never the less i think its an evil necessity that i must do so and I thank you for the admonition.
Fischer was more than capable of betraying his memory all on his own so before assessing a book as pandering and tabloid I strongly recommend read it. It's just a book. It's not like you are disinterring his grave.
Most authors would be safe in bucking public opinion writing a biography of a chess player. After all, It's not like it's an important topic like Royal heirs or Taylor Swift. Though, if public opinion is that chess players are dreadfully dull then you may be right.
Dec 16, 2014
0
#58
This whole thread is based upon nonsense and its premise is blatant anti-intellecualism.
... not to mention paranoia.
robbie_1969 wrote:
2. That Dr.Brady has no rational basis for concluding that Fischer was, 'on the edge of madness '. For this I dont need to read Bradys book, I can listen to radio interviews given by Fischer himself, read what Fischer has written himself and make an evaluation.
As others who have read the book have pointed out, Dr. Brady never makes any specific claims that Fischer was on the edge of madness. You seem to be basing that on the title of the book, but authors usually don't have the final say on the title. The publisher, and specifically the marketing department of the publisher, usually has the final say. They pick the title that will sell the most books, whether it actually jives with the book itself or not.
Solskytz, as a Jew and a proud American, Fischer's antisemitism and anti-American sentiments, all of which augmented greatly during his post-WC isolation, sadden me, but there are bigots and haters around every corner. He had challenges in his life that affected him in many ways and this was apparently one of the results. I've never considered him insane or mad or even batty, if I want to get personal, but definitely paranoid and anti-social. He never killed anyone or even hurt anyone that I ever heard of, so he's miles ahead of the people I do consider crazy.