To Surrender or... not to?

Yonatanof

A few minutes ago I reached a position in a game I was playing on Live chess:



Right after I made the last move, My dad passed by my door and I asked him to come see. When he entered the room I showed him the position and the 7 moves that led to it, and as he said "okay, tough position, but it's not over for black just ye..." black surrendered.
My dad chuckled and said that he'd be glad to play against me as black from that position.
What do you guys think, should black surrender in that position?
Think I'll beat my dad from that position? (Note that he's way more experienced than me)
Atinau

I agree with your dad. looks bad, but not hopeless. black can save his knight, (by moving him to bad position in a5), and you got a weak pawn at d4 which could be a problem later on. anyway, good for you, and good luck agianst your dad :)

embare

this isnt much of a tough position for black. playing b6 would help then after that pin the knight at c3... with B b4. Continuation from there isnt that hard... just a bunch of trading and eventually white position will be weakened.

embare

Atinau is wrong... i looked at the pawn on d4... its covered by the queen

embare

btw... if he tries not to block the pin with the bishop move i metioned at b4 then yould win his knight and yould get the rook the next turn in a split.

likesforests

Of course not. You were rated 1369 (long), and after ...Na5 you have no material edge.

trigs

definitely not a lost game for black (at the level that is being played mind you - i.e. anything under, let's say, 2000 rating).

Yonatanof

mm.

First, thanks for the comments everyone. Appriciate it.

Trigs and likesforests, I see your point regarding the fact that I will probably not be able to capitalize on this advantage enough to lead to a sure win. I am very familiar with that phneomenon. Very good point, only from that consideration black shouldn't have surrendered.

Embare, I believe that you are mistaken: 8...Nb6 9.c5xb6 Bb4 leads to 10. Bd2 which is an ok position for me, especially because i'm leading him by a knight, and that i have a pawn on b6 that he still needs to recapture. Maybe even a good good position.

About Atinau being wrong, I don't think you understand what he ment. Atinau, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that you observed the fact there is no pawn defending my d pawn, and no pawn will probably get to a position relevant to that matter during the game, and that that is a weak spot, to be startgically abused by my opponent. I doubt he ment that it is currently unprotected (how is that even slightly importent right now, anyway? no piece is going to attack it in the next few moves.)

Atinau, I agree, but as long as I keep an eye on him, i've got a strong outpost deep in enemy territory, which I think is a good thing, but I'm not sure. I can really say with confidence how bad that d-pawn weakness is, so I can't really judge this position fully. All I can say is that intuitively looks super-cool.

Last point: "no material edge after ..Na5"?

That would be logically weird as I spent the last 6 moves developing pieces while all he did was move his knight around. Of course there is a gaping hole in that logic, and that is that I might have moved my pieces in a dumb manner, creating a developed but fragile position that he can easily handle. However, this is a nice structure by my judgement! I've got some very advanced queenside pawns in a strong formation (save that d pawn..) and his got his knight cramped over there, waiting for the picking in a sucky position, with only the royal pawns developed. I'm waiting to castle kingside and demoralize his queenside. I think that that's positive!

Scarblac

Yonatanof, a material advantage is where you have more pieces than your opponent. He's not losing his knight, so you both still have all the pieces.

What you're talking about is an advantage in _development_. Well, you've both got one piece developed (the knights), and yours is on a slightly nicer spot. Most people don't really count pawns when looking at development.

Your advantage really is in _space_. IF you can keep that pawn chain in the center, you have much more space and your opponent is going to suffer. But pawns can't move backwards, and if he can undermine the chain (say with b7-b6xc5 or f7-f6xe5 at the right moment) then it could turn out to be weak.

But yeah, right now you're probably better.

Zenchess

White has a great position, but there's no reason for black to resign. 

Yonatanof

Oh. I thought he ment "real advantage" by that. Otherwise, I am aware of what you said, thanks Scarblac.

likesforests

Yonatanof> Last point: "no material edge after ..Na5"?

Yes. You do not have any extra material, nor will you in the near future.

Yonatanof> However, this is a nice structure by my judgement!

Players rarely resign due to a space disadvantage--you have to prove you can convert that positional advantage into a big material advantage or mate.

Yonatanof> his got his knight cramped over there, waiting for the picking

His knight can escape, if needed. Eg, Na5=>c6=>e7 and later Ng6 or Nf5. Black has possible pawn breaks on b6 and also a6 if you chase the knight.

Even at the expert level, players don't resign such positions.

Ray_Brooks

Maybe Black's Dad called him for dinner? Wink

Yonatanof

Likesforests, yea, scarblac corrected me about the material thing. Again, I thought that by 'material' you ment 'real'. Thanks for opinions.

rich

I have won many games by not giving in.

laconian

Doesn't look too lost for black to me....not yet, anyhow.

rich
Ray_Brooks wrote:

Maybe Black's Dad called him for dinner?


 Whats all that about ?

Ray_Brooks
rich wrote:
Ray_Brooks wrote:

Maybe Black's Dad called him for dinner?


 Whats all that about ?


Rich, I know from long experience (don't make me quote and give links) that you comment on threads without having any real understanding of what's being discussed. Please, just for once, read the whole thing, think a little, and then give a detailed, considered reply. It's fairly obvious that my comment is humorous, based on the original post and the fact that Black resigned way to early. As far as I am aware you've managed to accumulate 10,000+ points without ever contributing anything meaningful. Your single sentence posts (e.g. "LOL" and "I agree") are a waste of everyone's time. Anyway, shouldn't you be doing your homework? or are you relying on becoming a chess GM or Olympic sprinter? which is it this week? Button it sunbeam, you're out of your depth.

sstteevveenn

lol sunbeam?  Your nemesis!  Cool

chesslover2000

Ray_Brooks, way to think outside the box, I really enjoyed the comment as I agree with you in the posibility of non-chess factors leading to the resignation.