That stupid "zero tolerance" rule is another example. If you show up even a little late to your game, they'll forfeit you! Since your opponent stats the clock at the director's command, if you show up five minutes late, you'll be five minutes behind on the clock. That should be enough of a penalty.
Fischer would have lost the WC match 12-0.
FIDE and USCF are two different organizations!
FIDE rules state that you must make the move, and only then write it down.
USCF is a little trickier. If you are using a Monroi, or any other electronic scoresheet, you MUST make the move first and only then write it down. If you are using a paper scoresheet, you can write down the move and then make the move. You can not, however, continuously write down moves, make crossouts, and make other moves. You also can not take notes.
For example (USCF, this is all illegal in FIDE):
White writes e4 - White pushes e4, Black writes e4 e5, Black pushes e5, White writes e5 Nf3 - White pushes Nf3, Black writes Nf3 Nc6, Black pushes Nc6, White Writes Nc6 Bc4, thinks for 2 minutes, White pushes Bc4, Black writes Bc4 Nf6, thinks for 5 minutes, Completely blacks out Nf6 and Writes Bc5, puts a slash thru Bc5, writes Be7, Black pushes Be7, White writes Be7 O-O (Intending d4) and Castles.
- White's e4 action is legal
- Black's e5 action is legal
- White's Nf3 action is legal
- Black's Nc6 action is legal
- White's Bc4 action "technically" is not legal, but there's no real way to enforce it as long as he's actually making the first move written every time - it's like proving he said she said cases.
- Black's Be7 is illegal. Some directors that don't enforce rules well might allow the complete crossout of Nf6, but no director should EVER allow a simple crossout of Bc5 where Bc5 is still visible on the scoresheet.
- White's O-O (Intending d4) is EXTREMELY ILLEGAL, clearly flat out notes of what he plans to do, and writes himself a reminder. Just as illegal is to put alternative options as while you already made the move you made, that same move might become useful later, and you might be like "Oh, what about that Nd7 idea I thought about earlier that I have written there at move 7?"
On a completely separate note, there's an idiot at the chess club I play at in Charlotte who joined maybe 3 or 4 months ago, and thought that because he was the highest rated (by maybe 20 points over the next highest at the time), that he could just bully everybody, and make them think that these rules exist when they don't. I faced him back in the fall, and he played 1.e4. I then pushed 1...c6, and wrote down e4 c6 on the scoresheet. He pushes 2.d4, and I proceed to push 2...d5 and then wrote 2.d4 d5. He tries to tell me that I have to write down his d4 move before I make my move, which is not true at all. I most of the times do that, but if my response is immediate (i.e. Opening moves, only legal move while in check, etc., I'll make my move first and write both moves then). Nothing anywhere says that's illegal.
He's tried to pull other forms of semantics on other players as well figuring he could bully people simply because he's the highest rated. Well, alas, he and one other now toggle between highest and second at the club. I'm somewhere around 5th right now at 2058. And needless to say, this fool that thinks he so great drew that game above where I played the Caro-Kann, and since then, I've faced him two other times. Beat him with White by playing 1.g3, and Crushed Him like a bug last week on the Black side of a Vienna Gambit. See the link below:
http://www.charlottechess.com/games2/1123.htm
It may not be bullying, at least due to ratings. They could interpret rules one way and insist that they're right. If they're a teenager, this sounds even more plausible!
What you have written on the scoresheet does not serve as evidence of intention. Rather, it is the solely about the manner in which the piece is touched. If you grab the piece firmly and pick it up, clearly you intend to move it. If you bump it with your elbow as you reach across the board, clearly you had no intention of moving it. In between cases are why we have TD's and arbiters.
As for when you can write the move down:
Under FIDE rules you are permitted to write the move before you play it. 11.1 of the FIDE Laws of Chess clearly states, in part: "It is irrelevant whether the player first makes his move oand then records it, or vice versa."
Under USCF rules, the move must be played first. This is noted in 15A.
In the 5th edition of the official US Chess Federation's Official Rules of Chess on page 55 , rule 15A states that the player may first make the move , and then write it on the scoresheet , or vice versa .
Apparently its acceptable to do it either way . Perhaps the 6th edition changed this ? Did this change between the 4th and 5th editions ?
The 6th edition hasn't been printed yet. Currently we're operating under the 5th edition as amended by recent rule changes as listed on the USCF web site. (See my post #17.)
Thanks for the response . My reading of 15A tells me that the player may do it either way . Whats more interesting to me is the use of time delay clocks as opposed to using increments. FIDE likes increments while it seems time delay is preferred by USCF . I have played with both and find increments far superior to time delay .
what is the difference? why do you find increments superior?
I have always used a delay, I like straight time myself
How often have you played using increments ? The two main things I prefer about increments is that A) neither player can ever stop keeping score and B) far fewer games are decided by the clock or terrible time scrambles at the end .
i dont think i ever have
A) that is good
B) i dont mind that as much
I see the advantage of increment, but I really can never quite figure out how to best use my time with increment.
I played in my first increment tournament in October, and it's FAR SUPERIOR to Delay.
As already mentioned in a few cases, these factors make Increment better:
1) For times like the Opening, you can build time on the clock
2) All scorekeeping is done for the duration. With Delay, many people stop keeping score, and then they don't understand the fact that they can't claim 3-fold repetition or 50 moves because they don't have a completed scoresheet
3) The position decides the game, not the clock. You still can get into severe time trouble, and make second best moves, but you don't just hang the queen because you have zero time. I had under 30 seconds when I made my 36th move in the 2nd round of that tournament in October, and I was defending the whole way. He did have 1 chance to win by giving up his Bishop (It was KBP for White, KN for Black, I'm Black), but I still had to make a lot of only moves, and make the win for White as difficult as possible as it was a rook pawn with right color bishop, worst case scenario for a Knight. Also, it was an h-pawn and my King was on b5 at the start of the whole sequence.
40 moves is 20 minutes increment, but my clock never read more than 3 minutes with many instances of falling below 10 seconds before making my move, so it's not like Increment saves you, but I have the entire score sheet, and pieces weren't getting knocked over and flying all over the place.
4) Last but not least, time controls like 40/90, SD/30, 30 Second Increment beats 40/2, SD/1 with 5 second delay because let's say you crush your opponent in 20 moves. That's 10 minutes incremented on the clock. You get some jerks that will just sit on the position until their clock runs low. Instead of waiting 120 minutes for the fool to resign, I only have to wait 100 minutes. That's 20 extra minutes I get to eat between rounds.
FIDE and USCF are two different organizations!
FIDE rules state that you must make the move, and only then write it down.
USCF is a little trickier. If you are using a Monroi, or any other electronic scoresheet, you MUST make the move first and only then write it down. If you are using a paper scoresheet, you can write down the move and then make the move. You can not, however, continuously write down moves, make crossouts, and make other moves. You also can not take notes.
For example (USCF, this is all illegal in FIDE):
White writes e4 - White pushes e4, Black writes e4 e5, Black pushes e5, White writes e5 Nf3 - White pushes Nf3, Black writes Nf3 Nc6, Black pushes Nc6, White Writes Nc6 Bc4, thinks for 2 minutes, White pushes Bc4, Black writes Bc4 Nf6, thinks for 5 minutes, Completely blacks out Nf6 and Writes Bc5, puts a slash thru Bc5, writes Be7, Black pushes Be7, White writes Be7 O-O (Intending d4) and Castles.
- White's e4 action is legal
- Black's e5 action is legal
- White's Nf3 action is legal
- Black's Nc6 action is legal
- White's Bc4 action "technically" is not legal, but there's no real way to enforce it as long as he's actually making the first move written every time - it's like proving he said she said cases.
- Black's Be7 is illegal. Some directors that don't enforce rules well might allow the complete crossout of Nf6, but no director should EVER allow a simple crossout of Bc5 where Bc5 is still visible on the scoresheet.
- White's O-O (Intending d4) is EXTREMELY ILLEGAL, clearly flat out notes of what he plans to do, and writes himself a reminder. Just as illegal is to put alternative options as while you already made the move you made, that same move might become useful later, and you might be like "Oh, what about that Nd7 idea I thought about earlier that I have written there at move 7?"
On a completely separate note, there's an idiot at the chess club I play at in Charlotte who joined maybe 3 or 4 months ago, and thought that because he was the highest rated (by maybe 20 points over the next highest at the time), that he could just bully everybody, and make them think that these rules exist when they don't. I faced him back in the fall, and he played 1.e4. I then pushed 1...c6, and wrote down e4 c6 on the scoresheet. He pushes 2.d4, and I proceed to push 2...d5 and then wrote 2.d4 d5. He tries to tell me that I have to write down his d4 move before I make my move, which is not true at all. I most of the times do that, but if my response is immediate (i.e. Opening moves, only legal move while in check, etc., I'll make my move first and write both moves then). Nothing anywhere says that's illegal.
He's tried to pull other forms of semantics on other players as well figuring he could bully people simply because he's the highest rated. Well, alas, he and one other now toggle between highest and second at the club. I'm somewhere around 5th right now at 2058. And needless to say, this fool that thinks he so great drew that game above where I played the Caro-Kann, and since then, I've faced him two other times. Beat him with White by playing 1.g3, and Crushed Him like a bug last week on the Black side of a Vienna Gambit. See the link below:
http://www.charlottechess.com/games2/1123.htm
It may not be bullying, at least due to ratings. They could interpret rules one way and insist that they're right. If they're a teenager, this sounds even more plausible!
Uhm, this guy is in his 50s (or late 40s at the absolute youngest).
I played in my first increment tournament in October, and it's FAR SUPERIOR to Delay.
Hopefully I get a chance to then, sounds more enjoyable
You're not supposed to write your move down beforehand, and even if you did, it doesn't override the touch/move rule.
The last USCF toury i played in last year (200) players they could not careless in which order you wrote or played your move first, The important factor was that you WROTE and recorded EVERY move until the rules indicate at a certain time/control that you do not HAVE to record any moves. I wish someone would clear that rule up because to my understanding you did NOT have to record any moves under one minute at the end of your 1st time control !
usually it is when either player is under 5 min. for any time control
usually it is when either player is under 5 min. for any time control
CORRECT it was under 5 min.
It is ridiculous to have separate tournament rules between national federations and FIDE. It is one thing if you wish to give the organizer flexibility on some rules if the alternates are announced ahead of time - such as time penalties instead of instant forfeit for certain infractions. But rules involving the play of the game should be consistent.
Suppose an event is to be rated by both bodies in part, like the World Open (rated FIDE for eligible games only). Will only those FIDE-ratable games be required to follow FIDE rules? Or will following USCF rules be acceptable for FIDE ratings?
It's just silly. PICK A RULE and STICK WITH IT for all players everywhere.
Not saying "ALL" announcements do this, but MANY say "FIDE-Rated, but will follow USCF Rules", since they are also USCF rated. All games played in the United States are.
usually it is when either player is under 5 min. for any time control
That's actually not correct, it's if either player is under 5 minutes in a sudden death time control. If you are playing say, 35/90, SD/60, you are expected to write down the first 35 moves of the game, and all moves thereafter until one player or the other is below 5 minutes, at which point it's optional, though recommended as otherwise you can't claim 3-fold repetition or 50 moves.
Not saying "ALL" announcements do this, but MANY say "FIDE-Rated, but will follow USCF Rules", since they are also USCF rated. All games played in the United States are.
Is that allowed? I thought to be FIDE rated, the laws of chess had to be followed and the only areas where the arbiters would have flexibility are where the laws specifically give discretion for modifying the laws.
usually it is when either player is under 5 min. for any time control
That's actually not correct, it's if either player is under 5 minutes in a sudden death time control. If you are playing say, 35/90, SD/60, you are expected to write down the first 35 moves of the game, and all moves thereafter until one player or the other is below 5 minutes, at which point it's optional, though recommended as otherwise you can't claim 3-fold repetition or 50 moves.
all tournaments I have been to have allowed people to stop once one is under five minutes for any time control
What you have written on the scoresheet does not serve as evidence of intention. Rather, it is the solely about the manner in which the piece is touched. If you grab the piece firmly and pick it up, clearly you intend to move it. If you bump it with your elbow as you reach across the board, clearly you had no intention of moving it. In between cases are why we have TD's and arbiters.
As for when you can write the move down:
Under FIDE rules you are permitted to write the move before you play it. 11.1 of the FIDE Laws of Chess clearly states, in part: "It is irrelevant whether the player first makes his move oand then records it, or vice versa."
Under USCF rules, the move must be played first. This is noted in 15A.
In the 5th edition of the official US Chess Federation's Official Rules of Chess on page 55 , rule 15A states that the player may first make the move , and then write it on the scoresheet , or vice versa .
Apparently its acceptable to do it either way . Perhaps the 6th edition changed this ? Did this change between the 4th and 5th editions ?