Tricky question about FIDE rules

FIDE rules require that black must have a legal sequence of moves to win the game.  After Nxd7, what is that sequence?  From what others have said, the FIDE rule is different from the USCF rule

Note that FIDE Rule 10.2 is the same a USCF Rule 14H.  A draw can be claimed by a player if he has less than two minutes on the clock and no losing chances.  This rule would NOT be in effect if the player could simply get a draw according to FIDE rule 9.6 as was claimed in this thread.  10.2 supercedes 9.6.

And come on, you FIDE tournament players WRONGLY claiming the move is complete when the hand releases the piece. Can't you read a rulebook?  I haven't spent 5 minutes reading it and found:

FIDE Rule 6.7: During the game each player, having made his move on the chessboard, shall stop

his own clock and start his opponent’s clock. A player must always be allowed to stop his clock. His move is not considered to have been completed until he has done so."

No they DO NOT! You can't take a rule out of context and apply it across the board.  I just searched the entire FIDE rulebook for the word win and the only two places where it says one side must have a legal sequence of moves before it gets the win or enough material to win are:

1) Article 12.3b, which only applies to cases where one player is found to have a cellphone or other electronic device and will be ruled to lose the game unless the opponent can't win - then it's a draw.

2) Appendix D where it applies only "before his flag falls." which refers to the already mentioned FIDE Rule 10.2 with "less than two minutes" (but not ZERO!) on the clock.

  Note the FIDE rulebook is divided in "Rules of Play" and "Competition Rules" - the latter superceding the former.  The play rules don't consider a clock and say you move a piece and it's moved. The competition rules say it's not a completed move until you hit the clock.  So you're going to find some differences in the two sections.

This is interesting. Learnt something new here.

The question is specifically about FIDE rules. USCF rules are not relevant in this thread....result is a draw

No.  White flagged after playing Ndxc7+ on the board, but before he could press his clock. The move was "made", but not "completed". Under FIDE rules it was a perfectly valid move, and the game ended immediately after when white's flag fell.

I suggest if you want to argue about FIDE rules you should find yourself a current rulebook.

Article 10.2 does not exist in the current rules, and has not done so for three years.

Article 6.9 deals with the problem that this thread is about. knighttour2 is quite correct.

In order for black to win on time he must be able to show that he can mate white should play have continued. I would like to see how you suggest he does that.

Keep watching....this thead has plenty of life left !

Have you read FIDE rules ..article 6.9 ?

Go and read it, then re-read this thread, ignoring any posts about USCF rules.

If you still don't understand it, post again

@MickinMD: I disagree with you here.

From the FIDE Handbook E.01. Rules of Chess:

6.9
Except where one of Articles 5.1.1, 5.1.2, 5.2.1, 5.2.2, 5.2.3 applies, if a player does not complete the prescribed number of moves in the allotted time, the game is lost by that player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.
(Note: Article 5 is the completion of the game by checkmate, resignation, stalemate, insufficient material and draw by agreement; so it has no bearing on this ruling).

4.3
Except as provided in Article 4.2, if the player having the move touches on the chessboard,with the intention of moving or capturing:
4.3.1 one or more of his own pieces, he must move the first piece touched that can be moved
4.3.2 one or more of his opponent’s pieces, he must capture the first piece touched that can be captured
4.3.3 one or more pieces of each colour, he must capture the first touched opponent’s piece with his first touched piece or, if this is illegal, move or capture the first piece touched that can be moved or captured. If it is unclear whether the player’s own piece or his opponent’s was touched first, the player’s own piece shall be considered to have been touched before his opponent’s.
(Note: 4.2 covers adjusting pieces i.e. j'adoube and accidental contact with pieces)

So, my interpretation of this is that when White touches his knight and black's pawn, his only legal move is to make that move (because of touch move under 4.3.3). That happened before his flag fell (the initial scenario said "in this position, white plays Ndxc7+ and immediately after runs out of time", thus even if he did not complete the move by pressing the clock, he still had to play according to the obligations under the touch move. The rest of the moves are forced, and because Black cannot checkmate White with a legal series of move, the game is drawn.

And for those saying that you cannot force White to make the move, the following rule states:

9.2.2
Positions are considered the same if and only if the same player has the move, pieces of the same kind and colour occupy the same squares and the possible moves of all the pieces of both players are the same. Thus positions are not the same if: (goes on to mention castling options and en passant captures)

So in that position, White MUST make the move (as it is not a legal move if Black were to play a second consecutive move), even if it is to the detriment of Black.

I do not know USCF rules; but under FIDE rules, I would consider it a drawn game for reasons I have explained.

The wording is "position". The position has occurred even though the move has not been completed by the clock being pushed.

You are complicating matters.

FIDE rules ...articles 3 and 4 deal with the moving of pieces on the board, and 3.10a and 3.10b the definition of what is, and is not a legal move. Nowhere is the word "completed" used, and neither is there any reference to the chess clock.

Article 6 deals with the clock, and introduces the term "completed".  It is clear from 6.2a that a legal move on the board, and "completing" that move by pressing the clock, are two distinct things. Further, it is clear from 6.2a that a legal move does not cease to be a legal move simply because a player does not press the clock. Indeed 6.2a (2) specifically deals with the situation where a player does not press his clock and then goes on to play his next move.

So in the example here in this thread there is no doubt in my mind that the last legal move played was white's Nxc7. The fact that his clock flagged before he could hit it does not make it any less a legal move.

The actual way to help the creator of this thread is to send him to confessional for fair play policy violations.

Yipeeeee!

6.9 Except where one of Articles 5.1.1, 5.1.2, 5.2.1, 5.2.2, 5.2.3 applies, if a player does not complete the prescribed number of moves in the allotted time, the game is lost by that player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.

White loses, duh