Votechess rules - sharing opening database research
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Houston, we have a problem. Apparently a member of Chess.com customer support (verified by a supervisor) has been telling people that they cannot share opening database research in a votechess game. Can we please get this taken care of before this misinformation spreads further?
Copied from the current Master vs. Many public votechess game:
Chessnutcafe wrote:
Um... think whatever you want btickler... I don't like you... you don't like me.
And recolection is fine... what's not fine is using a database to get the info... please stop obfuscating the issue here.
ANYONE whom thinks I'm wrong - that's fine.... ASK CHESS.COM!!!!!!!!!!
(Again I spoke with Kayt at chess.com whom confirmed with her supervisor.)
Even GM K.M. said it was wrong in his post in the Public Comments!
4 days ago
GM Trade09
"Hello there!
I just read the comments about the matter involving the books and the statistics. I confess that, being my first vote chess game, I wasn't aware of all the specific rules. I am sure it happened because of lack of knowledge, or a possible ambiguity.
So let's move forward and play our best!
"
So it is you btickler whom needs to stop spreading DISinformation
Kayt (never heard of her) is wrong, Kayt's supervisor is wrong. It's not surprising, most chess.com staff never seem to be up on votechess rules and have to verify everything. If you have verification from staff of what you are saying, please post it forthwith, so we can get it struck down by someone at chess.com that actually understands their own votechess rules.
I read the public comments. The post you quoted as "illegal" is a direct cut and paste from an opening database, like 365chess.com. Quoted here for reference:
--------------------
Granulomatosis
Move
--------------------
Use of such opening databases is quite legal in votechess...and if looking up this position in the opening database is legal, then sharing that info with the team is is also quite legal. You also quoted a GM who said basically "I don't know anything about the rules of votechess". His opinion is meaningless.
What you should have done is use logic. Researching opening datebases = legal, ergo sharing research gained from a legal opening database with a team full of people who also can legally view the same exact database = legal. There no way it could NOT be legal.
My understanding is that Vote Chess is treated just like Daily games where databases are alowed as long as they aren't of computer games (or have a lot of them anyway) and don't include numerical evaluations of moves (engine scoring).
According to the help article it says no outside assistance.
https://support.chess.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1444821-can-i-use-computers-or-outside-help-in-my-vote-chess-game-
So, I don't know. Sounds like a clarification might be needed
Yeah. Like I mentioned, I thought the rules were the same as Daily/correspondence.
Calling Danny Rensch! Yo! Over here!
I hope he sees this since I can't message him ;)...
These are the actual rules being followed by chess.com for votechess, as I understand them:
- Books are okay
- YouTube videos et al are okay
- Opening databases of games are okay, opening databases generated via engines with position valuations are not okay
- Engine use is not allowed
- Use of tablebases is not allowed
- Getting specific game advice from non-team members is not allowed
- Exceptions to this are possible, and when allowances are changed it will be stated as such
This basically boils down to:
If you are doing research yourself using any reference material (books, videos, opening databases), it is okay as long as you and your team are ultimately determining the moves to be made.
If you and/or your team are using any external resource that is identifying exactly what moves should be made (engines, tablebases, outside players), you are breaking the rules.
Is there some way to get this issue escalated?
Probably
Let me ask around.
Thanks much :).
Just to let you know, I have asked about it. Not sure when we'll get clarification though.
Awesome :).
It's amazing needs clarification. I find people posting database stats a bit pointless, when anyone can use opening explorer. Why there is a possibility of this being illegal is bizare....
Bumping this since it's Monday... :)
It's still being worked on. Trying to get the right people connected.
Thanks for your efforts here...it will save a lot of acrimony in public votechess team comments down the line.
A lot of teams I know use opening databases. Surely it should be allowed.
Any word before the weekend?
Monday bump...
Thursday bump ...
Any word on this? :)
Last I knew the wording of the help article was being discussed with staff. Don't know the current status.