Was Bobby Fischer crazy?

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Avatar of Ziryab
ChessAvanzada wrote:

No. He was smart

 

Not so much.

Avatar of llama47
RedEyeKnights wrote:

geniuses are usually eccentric

The idea that great genius comes with great sacrifice is mostly a romantic notion.

999 out of 1000 smart people you'll never hear about because they're not interesting enough to make a novel out of... you know the type... the story that makes average people feel good because the main character's genius is conveniently offset by his loneliness. A characteristic that makes him simultaneously relatable and non threating... you freakin' idiots.

Avatar of GambitGit

Unfortunately, Fischer was mentally unstable and should have got help. He became a very disturbed, hateful person.  He hated Americans, Russians, Germans, Jews, Women, Blacks...basically everyone. He applauded the 9/11 attacks on America while on a radio station in Asia.

Avatar of llama47

His pathology was more evident via the fact that he was forsaken by his family, nation, religion, fans, and profession.

An utterly alone individual whose dying words were a desperate wish for human connection.

He became world champion at age 29, and spent the next 35 years years suffering until the day he died. That is not a healthy individual, not in any sense of the word.

Avatar of Mashikari
llama47 wrote:

His pathology was more evident via the fact that he was forsaken by his family, nation, religion, fans, and profession.

An utterly alone individual whose dying words were a desperate wish for human connection.

At age 13 he said be relished in breaking the men's egos who he defeated, it wasn't fun just to win, he needed them to truly know he was a superior being. This was his psyche from start to end.

Avatar of JijoAttumalilJose

Now that Bobby Fischer is dead. Why should we say so much about him.  Let him rest in peace. 

Avatar of Mashikari
JijoAttumalilJose wrote:

Now that Bobby Fischer is dead. Why should we say so much about him.  Let him rest in peace. 

The same reason we talk good of the dead who did good. 

Avatar of ezeldin1

Mashikari, I respectfully suggest that Fischer wasn't forsaken by his family.  His mother and he kept in touch over the years. He wasn't really raised  in the Jewish faith and so can't be said to have forsaken his religion.  As for his nation, he self exiled from the U.S., which after the second Spassky match wanted to extradite and arrest him. To all intents and purposes he himself renounced his citizenship. Fans and professionals? To this day can any other grandmaster match the reverence and even awe that is accorded to Fischer as a chess genius?  It's sad, even tragic, that he never got the help he needed to live a more balanced and fulfilling life as a person and a chess champion.  Late  in his life he even said that he hated chess.

By the way, he had dear friends in Iceland who looked after him in his later years, and he also intended to marry a female Japanese chess champion, with whom he had a longstanding relationship.

Avatar of Mashikari
ezeldin1 wrote:

Mashikari, I respectfully suggest that Fischer wasn't forsaken by his family.  His mother and he kept in touch over the years. He wasn't really raised  in the Jewish faith and so can't be said to have forsaken his religion.  As for his nation, he self exiled from the U.S., which after the second Spassky match wanted to extradite and arrest him. To all intents and purposes he himself renounced his citizenship. Fans and professionals? To this day can any other grandmaster match the reverence and even awe that is accorded to Fischer as a chess genius?  It's sad, even tragic, that he never got the help he needed to live a more balanced and fulfilling life as a person and a chess champion.  Late  in his life he even said that he hated chess.

By the way, he had dear friends in Iceland who looked after him in his later years, and he also intended to marry a female Japanese chess champion, with whom he had a longstanding relationship.

His mother was Jewish. You are correct that it was he who betrayed his own nation by playing a Yugoslavian in spite of UN sanctions and then he played the victim. In fact, the reason the CIA were investigating him was because he had openly threatened to sell out US secrets to the soviets and they weren't sure what he knew or didn't know. He literally forced his conspiracy theory to be partially true by forcing CIA to need to investigate him. You don't even understand the type of guy you are defending.

 

As for the 'has any other chess champion' question, Many second-placers, not just world champions, have been as impressive and innovative as Fischer. He was just unique in that he was trying very hard at a time where the world had begun to grow a little tired of Chess, so he happened to find a sweet-spot where others weren't trying as hard and the strategies and tactics had become repetitive and predictable. Karpov was nearly invincible due to his defensive playstyle and outdid Fischer during the ending of his own era, rising as Fischer fell. Kasparov is Fischer's hugest rival and even played sequences Fischer did, during the midgame especially, better than Fischer did because he'd finetune it based on the enemy's playstyle. As for before Fischer, Alekhine, Tal and plenty others were outstanding.

Avatar of ezeldin1

Actually I 'm not defending him.  I'm just sharing whatever understanding I have of the information available.  Yes, his mother was Jewish but Bobby didn't have a Jewish upbringing. 

As for understanding the type of guy he was, I had four decades of experience in treating the mentally ill, amongst them paranoid delusional people whose pathology was similar to Fischer's.  We can never entirely understand a person, but his pattern of behavior and symptoms is typical of paranoid individuals who tend to bring on themselves the very persecution they fear. He had a serious psychiatric disorder for which he did not get help.

 With regard to great chessplayers, I don't necessarily think he was the best of all time, but my point is that he's not lacking for enthusiastic and informed followers who are inspired by his games and his achievement, which his odious personal behavior does not diminish.

And by the way, Spassky was Russian, not from the former Yugoslavia.  The match was played there, which was a violation of US sanctions.

Avatar of Rat1960

I have The Games of Robert J. Fischer isbn 0 7134 0370 5
Less than 800 competitive games (does not include Spassky 2).
If you are young and learning Fischer is still great, the limited opening range and in my opinion quality makes it easier to study.

Avatar of blueemu
pawn8888 wrote:

His last years were spent in Iceland, I believe.  

Can't get much crazier than that!

Avatar of nTzT

Yea, crazy good

Avatar of tactic

Yes, but not by himself. He was a genius; too smart and was constantly pressured by others and the game no longer became fun and he just went mad. I doubt he's crazy crazy, but I do believe he had paranoia. The cost of a genius; frankly

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TuckersTricksYTSUB wrote:

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xd

 

Avatar of HEGOATSRIDGE

No Fischer was not crazy. He connected with the world on his own terms and refused to be manipulated or pushed around. He was his own man. He did not cash in when he clearly could have had the good life. He saw the world through the eyes of a self made world champion. He bowed to no one. He was eccentric and ego driven. He had no soul mate and could not form any relationship of lasting value to him. He was brilliant and yet flawed. All near him found him a pain yet many still sought his company. He rejected the friendship of many, only the exasperated left his company. Most left him alone. He deserves his place in chess history, he deserves nothing but scorn for his derision of the world and his hatred of the USA and of the Jews who he regarded as snakes. What a shame. 

Avatar of llama47

You say he wasn't mentally ill, but if his disposition caused him to have a miserable life where, additionally, he was unable to form meaningful relationships, then what's the difference?

Ok so he wasn't experiencing psychosis, at least not in the extreme, but even so, he had a lot to work on.

Avatar of markie595

 Bobby was gifted in memory, and recall and playing Chess.... Personally he had some psychiatric problems which could have been worked on starting when he was young..Therapy and meds could have helped him in those's ares..and if doctors stayed on top of his health   he might still be with us today and be a more injoyable person to be with and known.....