What are the most and least sound gambits?

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TheGreatOogieBoogie

Which one is the Albin countergambit again? 

sammynouri
umbrella_corporation wrote:
sammynouri wrote:
umbrella_corporation wrote:

queen's gambit isn't a gambit noob

Yeah, I know, did you even read what I said?

yes i did and u still classified it as a gambit so i don't understand...

really weird first sentence - u say it is a gambit then u say 'if it can even be considered a gambit' to hedge ur bets or something

It's not weird at all. Some people consider it a gambit, some don't. You can tell by the name most people do, so, since white wins the pawn back it's a very sound gambit. Not sure why you had to come just to attack people's ratings and 'correct' me.

sammynouri
umbrella_corporation wrote:

i'm blocking u - ur too annoying buddy

Crap. He beat me to it. Well, no loss there.

JustinJ_FairfieldU

albins is d4, d5, c4, e5

JustinJ_FairfieldU
sammynouri wrote:
 

I forget the name, but I managed to win with this two out of four times (unrated games of course, I'm not that crazy).

this is the halloween gambit I think

sammynouri
JustinJ_FairfieldU wrote:
sammynouri wrote:
 

I forget the name, but I managed to win with this two out of four times (unrated games of course, I'm not that crazy).

this is the halloween gambit I think

Yep, doesn't get any more unsound than that.

clunney

The Halloween gambit is not THAT unsound (it is in fact impossible to refute it beyond =/+).

TheGreatOogieBoogie

The Albin should be a draw with best play although it seems rather dubious.  It isn't the foolish pawn drop (I won't even dignify it by calling it a "gambit) that the Englund is and rather tricky, but black has better options. 

SeigneurMontjoie

The Muzio gambit! I can't believe it is at all sound, sacrificing a whole knight on move 5. 

It was quite popular in the Romantic Era, I believe Morphy played it a few times. 

clunney

I thought 4. a3 refuted the Albin?

TheGreatOogieBoogie

No you're thinking of the Fajarowicz Budapest.  Actually, maybe 4.a3 refutes the Albin too I'm not familiar with it though. 

Ben_Dubuque
Pacific_Victory wrote:

The Muzio gambit! I can't believe it is at all sound, sacrificing a whole knight on move 5. 

 

It was quite popular in the Romantic Era, I believe Morphy played it a few times. 

The Muzio is definately sound, and Shirov played an even crazier gambit entitled the DOUBLE MUZIO

it goes as followed

1.e4 e5

2.f4 (yes completely sound don't blinking question it) exf5

3.Nf3 g5

4.Bc4 g4

5.0-0(ignoring the treat on the knight. better than moving, and the best move in the position)

5.... gxf3

6. Qxf3 Qf6

7. e5 Qxe5

8. Bxf7 (this is the double muzio, there does exist a triple where b3 is played, but it is undound unlike the double. many great players have played this opening. and the attack is suprisingly strong.)

JustinJ_FairfieldU
Pacific_Victory wrote:

The Muzio gambit! I can't believe it is at all sound, sacrificing a whole knight on move 5. 

 

It was quite popular in the Romantic Era, I believe Morphy played it a few times. 

Muzio is still a strong openning.  If you'd like take a look at this game, we're getting smacked around on the blackside of it

http://www.chess.com/votechess/game?id=51100

BigDoggProblem
Jimmykay wrote:
BigDoggProblem wrote:
Jimmykay wrote:
BigDoggProblem wrote:
JustinJ_FairfieldU wrote:

How about the Marshal gambit in the Queen's gambit for soundest? Only considering sane gambits for the worst I know the ruy lopez schliemann gambit has a dubious reputation.

Marshall in the Ruy? I'd say highly effective in a pragmatic sense, but I'm not sold on its soundness.

I'll pick the Marshal gambit for soundness, not based on my own understanding of it, but on the fact that Kasparov himself (and many others) play anti-Marshall lines to avoid having to face it.

That doesn't mean it's sound....just hard to refute in a single OTB game with the clock ticking. I too avoid the Marshall. Why should I let Black have that much fun?

I do not think that anyone cares about the technical evaluation of the soundness of an opening by 1600-1700 players like you and me. We are not remotely qualified to address that part of the question. My point is that if it were "unsound", than the best players in the world would not be avoiding it.

I never made a technical evaluation of any gambit's soundness. I got your point; I just didn't agree with it. Some lines are avoided at the top because they are too messy and there is a safer path to advantage. That does not tell us a thing about whether the messy lines are sound. It just tells us that the GM's are trying to avoid a rough day at the office.

SeigneurMontjoie

The Muzio is completely unsound from an engine point of view, but from a human perspective I think its still playable, although it is extremely rare nowadays at the top level. 

clunney

The Muzio is rare because 4. Bc4 is a bad move (instead Nc3 or h4 are best), and because 4. ...g4 is a poor reply to 4. Bc4 (4. ...Bg7 assures black of the advantage).

Ben_Dubuque

Bc4 isn't bad it is just a different flavor simple development is almost never bad and on move 4 I could count the bad examples on one hand

JustinJ_FairfieldU
clunney wrote:

I thought 4. a3 refuted the Albin?

that's an interesting idea, I don't know if the albins is totally refuted, but things don't look too good for black after a3.

TheGreatOogieBoogie

If you're questioning a gambit's soundness that's a good indication not to play it.  No one questions the Reti, Queen's Gambit, Ruy Lopez, or Giuco Piano's soundness, just saying. 

JustinJ_FairfieldU
TheGreatOogieBoogie wrote:

If you're questioning a gambit's soundness that's a good indication not to play it.  No one questions the Reti, Queen's Gambit, Ruy Lopez, or Giuco Piano's soundness, just saying. 

good point. It works fantastically at blitz though. I remember though I can't find confirmation that one of the top gms played in the rapid knockouts at the fide world cup last year.