What is "God's rating"?

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TrumanB

In other words, what is the maximum rating possible exploring the full capacity of the game called chess? What is the limit?

LeeEuler

Well, part of the problem with the rating is that you get less rating the higher above you are then your opponent. This is why the gap Fischer had between the second ranked player was so impressive. Eventually, if your say a 3500 playing against 2700, your not going to be getting much rating

juicesharp

Rating is kinda relative to performance of your opponents .... so you can find a formula of ELO rating and if you 800 points above your opponent you can get 0 for the win. So answering your question it is impossible to get more than 800 points above of your best revival....

Sred
TrumanB wrote:

In other words, what is the maximum rating possible exploring the full capacity of the game called chess? What is the limit?

It totally depends on the player pool. Ratings are relative. If God chose to play FIDE rated games against humans, she'd only play sub 3000 players. After a while he'd no longer be able to gain rating points, because the rating diff would be too large. But if you add Satan, who is supposedly also quite strong, they could also play each other and the situation would be totally different.

Sred
bbmaxwell wrote:
Sred wrote:
TrumanB wrote:

In other words, what is the maximum rating possible exploring the full capacity of the game called chess? What is the limit?

It totally depends on the player pool. Ratings are relative. If God chose to play FIDE rated games against humans, she'd only play sub 3000 players. After a while he'd no longer be able to gain rating points, because the rating diff would be to large. But if you add Satan, who is supposedly also quite strong, they could also play each other and the situation would be totally different.

Well, you never gain literally zero points for a win, and God could play forever.

And since God has no problems playing dirty (controlling people's minds and such) then theoretically there is no limit, even if God were playing humans.

Yes, you can get 0 rating points from a win. Happened to me here on this site.

EDIT: I think USCF used to give at least one point, but they dropped the rule because it messed up the system.

IMKeto
TrumanB wrote:

In other words, what is the maximum rating possible exploring the full capacity of the game called chess? What is the limit?

If i remember correctly I believe its 4000 Elo.

Sred
bbmaxwell wrote:
Sred wrote:
bbmaxwell wrote:
Sred wrote:
TrumanB wrote:

In other words, what is the maximum rating possible exploring the full capacity of the game called chess? What is the limit?

It totally depends on the player pool. Ratings are relative. If God chose to play FIDE rated games against humans, she'd only play sub 3000 players. After a while he'd no longer be able to gain rating points, because the rating diff would be to large. But if you add Satan, who is supposedly also quite strong, they could also play each other and the situation would be totally different.

Well, you never gain literally zero points for a win, and God could play forever.

And since God has no problems playing dirty (controlling people's minds and such) then theoretically there is no limit, even if God were playing humans.

Yes, you can get 0 rating points from a win. Happened to me here on this site.

That's not how the math works.

Sure chess.com can implement whatever system they want... but I'm sure God would be able to update ratings to the nth decimal place

It's exactly how the math works. This site uses Glicko2, which is considered superior to ELO. Guaranteed rating points mess up the system, because, well you gave the example yourself.

Sred

@bbmaxwell, as you said, no mathematician would do that. So, since Glicko2 was created by serious mathematicians, I'm quite confident.

Sred

@bbmaxwell, but you raised the interesting question what would happen if the system didn't use rounding and an infinite amount of games were played. I'm not sure, but my intuition still leans towards the existence of a limes superior.

Sred
bbmaxwell wrote:
Sred wrote:

@bbmaxwell, but you raised the interesting question what would happen if the system didn't use rounding and an infinite amount of games were played. I'm not sure, but my intuition still leans towards the existence of a limes superior.

I did the calculation at one point, and IIRC it doesn't converge.

Then I trust you on that. So in this case, no matter what the rating pool is, there is no limit to God's rating.

Sred
bbmaxwell wrote:

Well, don't trust me too much, because the first time I did it, I was wrong, and I went back and had to check my work... and this was years ago

I'd rather trust you. Otherwise I might have to do it and I switched from math to software development 30 years ago happy.png

BlackKaweah

Steinitz was rated 2826 according to chessmetrics. Steinitz defeated God, even after giving pawn and move odds. This is God’s only known game, thus His rating is 2426.

TrumanB

My idea behind this topic is to ask how strong someone/something can be. I'm not considering technical limitations here. Just wondering what is the deepest bottom of chess. If the game of chess could play chess ( like metachess ) what would it be its max.

Thanks for pointing out that elo rating is relative. I was thinking about something absolute.

4go10_legend

God's rating doesn't exist

Sred
TrumanB wrote:

My idea behind this topic is to ask how strong someone/something can be. I'm not considering technical limitations here. Just wondering what is the deepest bottom of chess. If the game of chess could play chess ( like metachess ) what would it be its max.

Thanks for pointing out that elo rating is relative. I was thinking about something absolute.

Well, if then it depends on the rating system that you have to create for this purpose. Of course we'd have to assume that God knows all the (finitely many) possible chess games and would always play perfectly. But since it's not a game with infinitely many possibilities, I'd assume that a sane rating system would assign a finite rating even to a perfect player.

Sred
GMproposedsolutions wrote:

3800

Definitely a proposed solution.

Sred
bbmaxwell wrote:
GMproposedsolutions wrote:

If there were God and Carlsen alone who played chess, guess what each of their ratings would be assuming a mean of 1500 and a standard deviation of 200. No one would have a rating beyond 2000 I can tell you this much right now.

AFAIK infinite wins creates infinite rating increase... at the very least the ratings would go beyond 500 from the mean (Carlsen can't draw or win).

Of, someone showed up to do the calculations. That's very good, because I admit that I specialized in homological algebra, algebraic geometry and mathematical logic. I hate statistics.

Sred
bbmaxwell wrote:

And I guess we have to be clear... is Carlsen playing a 32man EGTB? Is he playing the theoretically strongest human engine? Or is he playing an omnipotent supernatural entity?

With respect to the OP, I think we should assume a perfect player knowing every possible game. As you said before: no drawing chances for Carlsen.

TrumanB

I'm wondering how far can technology go...can quantum computers solve chess in some distant future.

themaskedbishop

In the tournament of supernatural beings who read your mind, God didn't do that well. Osiris bested him with a frisky variation of the Catalan, Zeus played a weakish Greco to a draw, and Santa Claus ended up winning top prize, mostly on the strength of his Icelandic variation of the Scandy.