White against the siciliian: 2.c3

There certainly is value in "framing the discussion", as it were.

But there has got to be a better way of doing that, where you aren't sacrificing the pawn.

This makes some sense except for the fact that you said "equal". No white is not equal in the smith morra. If he was, it would be extremely popular. The idea would be that you could throw everything at him and if that "somehow" didn't work, you get an easy draw. No, you have to accept more than that. White is definitley at a disadvantage no doubt as he doesn't get much more than the open besisdes more traps and minimally more initiative yet your options are reduced since you will probably lose any endgame. I mean chess is a draw anyway so being able to attack like crazy with equal if your opponent plays correctly is not much worse than still having an edge because you get so many chances to win either way by relying on traps and stuff. The risk is that black is better if he plays right and white suffers in those positions. In the close sicilian you have to accept equality to get a position you like but you don't get all the attempts to smash your opponent yet the closed is more respected. I myself would not want to play at a disadvantage with white.

Ok, white is not playing for a draw!! That's like saying 1 d4 players play for a draw. He's just more positional but can still get an edge! If that's what you think white is going for you're just wrong. He's just not trying to win in a huge attack like the open lines which makes it less theoretical but if white is fine with a calmer win which I am, 2 c3 is excellent since he can still get the edge. It can lead to interesting positional positions, like when it transposes into the french!

It may be difficult, but definitley do-able and I think GM's could push it quite far. The point is that it's not fun for white at all and his compensation, though he has something, is a bit questionable black should be able to fend off the attack after the traps well enough especially since all exchanges are to be considered for black so his options are now increased quite a bit and can focus on defense a bit more. It's probably not a forced win, but GM's can beat other GM's with these kind of advantages quite often with some draws thrown in but white sure does suffer. And when you make it amateur vs amateur it's usually even easier though it depends how well black knows his endings but I think I could convert the endgame advantage often.

And remember black still has his central majority which could be put to good use as well. Black gets an edge in most open sicilian endgames so I'm pretty confident on the black side!

Consider the "normal" amount of pressure that white gets in the Panov-Botvinnik attack against the Caro-Kann. Equal material, with pressure.

What the Smith-Morra is - it's basically white saying I don't want to spend time trying to really learn the Sicilian, I'm going to take a shortcut and I don't care if it costs a pawn but I'm going to get some pressure.

Call it like it is.

The only reason to play the morra is to play for traps and avoid theory. Traps are huge in it but once your opponents book up there's no real point in giving up a pawn because it's too insufficient and black's position is solid as in all sicilians.

It's definitley safe, but white is still trying to win but a safer way to win will make more draws but I'm saying white has winning chances.

No, White is not at a disadvantage, I dispute that absolutely. I've found only one line where I feel I have insufficient compensation for the pawn. Traps and minimally more initiative? You clearly don't know the Morra at all.

You are way too optimistic to think that white is fine in all smith morra lines. That would be a crime considering the traps you get and that's the reality. People like to say their favorite line is "just equal but they will probably fall for the traps" when you're risking much more than that. The positions are not much different except white has yes minimally more initiative, maybe one extra piece out and black gets less counterplay since white has the c file also but black gets a solid position. In an endgame, black has his extra pawn and can advance his center pawns. In the middlegame, black can easily play more defensively because he doesn't have to worry about counterplay now. his center pawns are good defenders and he has a kingside majority to lean on and there is no clear way I see that white can try to blow black away. Just look at MCO; it says black gains the advantage "with accurate play". What does that mean?? Traps! That's the danger but mco does think that black can get the advantage because white has something for the pawn but not enough because black's game is too solid, he controls all the key squares with pawns on e6 and d6, and he has so many excellent static advantages. Black's advantages are more clear while white's are somewhat unclear so black can do quite well with good play which is not fun for white! At least the closed sicilian will reward you for good play! Not necessarily in the morra. You just don't want to admit to the disadvantage. Now I said similar things like this to the KG which I now admit to be a fun and a difficult but possible gambit to refute where black can also pick many easy lines, but this one is worse. Why have you won your games? I'm sure it was because of the traps which is why I think knowing the theory will serve black well as long as he is familiar with the plans in the open sicilians since that will help. When I look at a smith morra position where black has survived the opening, that's what it looks like.

Few international players think that white is equal in the smith morra. Just ask them or look at mco. And don't for the love of god tell me mco is wrong! I had not realized how the king's gambit is so complex and is a decent choice even if it's a big risk but I know I'm right about this! They are not like the king's gambit positions. I can't say it enough, they're open sicilian positions where white is down a pawn and has a tiny development advantage. And black can still get counterplay in the opening. Like I called the benoni unreliable (which may have been harsh) I think the perfect word for the smith morra is unreliable. You can't rely on it forever because eventually you will come across people who know about it and will make you suffer.

I could assist with the 14th Edition line, if no-one has the new 15th Edition available...

1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Nxc3 Nc6 5. Nf3 d6 6. Bc4 a6 7. O-O Nf6 8. Qe2 Bg4 9. Rd1 e6 10. Bf4 Be7 =/+

You mean in all of the sicilian? Obviously open. I respect the closed sicilian and grand prix attack even king's gambit a little but I really don't respect the smith morra. If you mean in the smith morra, I don't know.

Yeah it's important not to play ...Nf6 too early which leads to trouble but is natural. Also ...a6 is a key move because that is where many traps come from as well. That took 1 minute to learn which is pretty easy but many people are lazier than that. But what's your point gonnosuke? Don't you love the smith morra? Anyways I think that proves marvellosity wrong unless he really thinks he can go against MCO, then he clearly doesn't realize how reliable MCO is.

Elubas: No, actually virtually none of my wins have been because of 'traps'. It's been a long time since anyone fell into what I'd call a Morra 'trap'. I have, however, bamboozled strong players with the initiative I have and strong play, along with extra familiarity of the position.

My last OTB game with the Morra was against a ~2100 player and I won with a direct kingside attack and he didn't reach the time control.

Gonnosuke: I was too lazy to sift out the quoting :)

Well that will happen sometimes, but do you realize that this could easily happen in an open sicilian as well?

Sure. And?

And in the open white doesn't give away a pawn. What are you getting that you can't with the open so much besisdes traps? Is it really worth the pawn? Black's central majority gives him good chances to hold his game and will have a very favorable endgame where in the open you get most of these chances for white for free. In the long run I don't think the morra will do so well if you face stronger and stronger opponents who know the theory and the middlegame plan for black and now exchanges are extra good. MCO says black is better and for example silman doesn't think it's very good at higher levels at play either. It may be playable, but it's not fun to be at a disadvantage when your tricks don't work. Maybe if you're equal, because at least then the position doesn't turn against you, but black gets the edge here.

I would argue that the S-M caps your performance lower than (for example) being an "exclusively KG player".

You really wouldn't want to be known as "the guy who plays the S-M".

Well yes, it's quite different from the king's gambit.

That's for sure.