who is the best chess player of all time?

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Yereslov
TetsuoShima wrote:
Yereslov wrote:
PIRATCH wrote:

Robert James "Bobby" Fischer! :D

To Em. Lasker he was the longest time WCC and was not only World Champion but also a well known mathematican and philosopher! What a career!

Fischer would disagree. He regarded Morphy and Capablanca as the best players in history. He was impressed by the natural talent of both.

 

before or after he reached his peak?

Both before and after. I dont think he thought of himself as superior to either.

sirrichardburton

I agree that Lasker was great at using psychology against his opponent but i doubt if he was the first to do so. Most likely within 5 minutes of chess being invented at least one of the 2 players was using some kind of psychological warfare.

TetsuoShima

Can someone explain to me what exactly Nimzovich and Steinitz invented what Morphy didnt already use.

Yereslov
Estragon wrote:

Well, Fischer's famous "Ten Best of All Time" list was done in 1964, he included Spassky and Steinitz but not Lasker, if I remember correctly.

He also did not include himself, which has led most to agree that he was offering a list of the "Ten Best Besides Me" without coming out and saying it.

I see no evidence that supports that claim. If you listen to his interviews, Fischer very clearly states who is his superior.

ninfan

Haha, interessante. 

Adriano, sei que em inglês talvez eu venha a confundí-lo e minha intenção é ser o mais claro possível lol, portanto resolvi escrever em português.

Vejamos... Eis uma pergunta muito pessoal em todos os sentidos. Pois aquele que mais se identificar com o Kasparov por exemplo(creio que talvez seja você... haha, adivinhei? xD) responderá que ele possivelmente tenha sido o melhor... esse tipo de pergunta entraria na trinca "política-esporte-religião" LOL (ops, xadrez já está dentro a muito tempo... haha) Logo, não há muito o que discutir sobre isso... pois como já mencionado, é muito pessoal e, por esses motivos, tudo é válido.

Agora, vc pode vir a comparar diante de distintos momentos da história. Cada um tem o seu devido valor em específicos períodos da história... e por isso creio que vc deveria examinar um a um, para depois tirar uma conclusão acerca disso e aí então propor qual seria o seu "mentor individual" (de acordo com um Phd de Psicologia da USP se não me engano... acho que foi esse o termo utilizado... não me recordo as exatas) Ou seja, "mentor individual" seria aquele que o seu insconsciente viesse a eleger como "o melhor" devido à uma série de fatores, mas basicamente devido ao grau de admiração que vc adquiriu daquela pessoa em específicos momentos e situações. É complexo p/ explicar tudo aqui lol.

Mas o importante mesmo, em poucas palavras, é ter sempre em mente qual foi o melhor p/ vc, e não para o outro (talvez uma vez ou outra vc tenha que perguntar, para que saiba a opinião do outro também...)  Para que assim vc o tome como exemplo e passe a perseguí-lo em seus jogos.

Espero que eu tenha sido claro, senão do contrário pudíamos jogar umas partidas p/ que pudessemos discutir sobre isso xD.

Obrigado e boa sorte nessa questão! (risos).

varelse1
TetsuoShima wrote:

Can someone explain to me what exactly Nimzovich and Steinitz invented what Morphy didnt already use.

Nimzovitch-- Nimzo-indian, Queens-indian, Nimzovitch defense.

Stienitz -- Tough one. didn't he have a variation of the Kings gambit named after him?

TetsuoShima
varelse1 wrote:
TetsuoShima wrote:

Can someone explain to me what exactly Nimzovich and Steinitz invented what Morphy didnt already use.

Nimzovitch-- Nimzo-indian, Queens-indian, Nimzovitch defense.

Stienitz -- Tough one. didn't he have a variation of the Kings gambit named after him?

lol yeah he invented the steinitz defense in the spanish about which Fine said it was bad, but i ment principle in general play?? i mean passed supported pawn, supported knight in the enemy camp, did they really invented stuff , wasnt that already used before them??

Sunofthemorninglight

McVicar, for pointing out the necessity to keep your pieces on the small squares.

TetsuoShima

actually thx for making me look up morphys games, somehow his not so famous games are way more interesting in my opinion.

Sunofthemorninglight

ah yes, they would be at that level.

TetsuoShima

Probably Fischer then Morphy and then Capablanca..

Even though i really enjoy Petrosians ideas, they are so funny, like giving up the queen to close the center. I can´t imagine anyone finds Petrosian games boring???? Its like he laughs at his opponents all the time.

Yereslov

Botvinnik defeated Lasker, Capablanca, Alekhine, Smyslov, Tal, Petrosian, and drew against Fischer. He dominated chess for four decades, and defeated three of the greatest players of this era. I think that qualifies him as the best player in history. He proved this by always winning his return matches. 

Yereslov

Evidence of Botvinnik's genius (yes, he did get the drawing idea from Geller):

And Botvinnik was an old man at this point. Imagine him at his prime.

Yereslov

This was later proven to be a win for white, but this was several years after the game, and it required the kind of accuracy both Fischer and Botvinnik are incapable of.

The_Riga_Magican

I like paul morphy. At paul's time, people were playing more of a attacking style. Yes, paul morphy did play attacking, but stradegy was also envolved in his games. Also in some of his games, he gave up a rook on move 0. The rook on a1 was given up. And he won those games! I think Paul Morphy is the best player in my opinion. Also here is a game from Morphy. My favorite.

Yereslov
aww-rats wrote:

Bobby Fischer, end of argument.

Bobby Fischer only managed to defeated Spassky for the first time in 1972 (the same year he quit), and he never proved that he could stand a chance against Karpov. He cowered and left the chess world before he could fully develop. Botvinnik, on the other hand, proved his dominance for four decades.

Yereslov
mewtoo wrote:

I like paul morphy. At paul's time, people were playing more of a attacking style. Yes, paul morphy did play attacking, but stradegy was also envolved in his games. Also in some of his games, he gave up a rook on move 0. The rook on a1 was given up. And he won those games! I think Paul Morphy is the best player in my opinion. Also here is a game from Morphy. My favorite.

 

Morphy may have been the best of that era, but that's not saying much, since his opponents rarely concentrated on defense. 

He is famous for winning drawish positions due to major blunders from his opponents. 

Steinitz, for example, had actual competition (players who could give him a difficult time), and he understood chess at a much higher level in the same era as Morphy.

TetsuoShima
Yereslov wrote:
aww-rats wrote:

Bobby Fischer, end of argument.

Bobby Fischer only managed to defeated Spassky for the first time in 1972 (the same year he quit), and he never proved that he could stand a chance against Karpov. He cowered and left the chess world before he could fully develop. Botvinnik, on the other hand, proved his dominance for four decades.

Fischer was way beyond Botvinnik and Karpov. No need to prove it, with Karpov he would have wiped the floor

Nevergaveup
Yereslov wrote:
aww-rats wrote:

Bobby Fischer, end of argument.

Bobby Fischer only managed to defeated Spassky for the first time in 1972 (the same year he quit), and he never proved that he could stand a chance against Karpov. He cowered and left the chess world before he could fully develop. Botvinnik, on the other hand, proved his dominance for four decades.

Fischer was way beyond Botvinnik and Karpov. No need to prove it, with Karpov he would have wiped the floor

Yea, Of course Fisher was the person who have Introduced game of the century!!

And showed the universe the result of candidate's tournament who no one till now have proved...

By knocking of larsen and taimanov 6-0, Both player's...

Fisher is the Best Player! who ever Lived in this universe...

varelse1
Nevergaveup wrote:
Yereslov wrote:

 

 

 

Fisher is the Best Player! who ever Lived in this universe...

Other than Karpov, yes.