WHO IS THE GREATEST CHESS PLAYER OF ALL TIME? Defend your answer...

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Avatar of mauriciolopezsr
SmyslovFan wrote:
sbergman wrote:

No human has ever been so dominant as Capablanca, who was such a good positional player that for years he was thought to be unbeatable. ...

Paul Morphy was more dominant for a short period, Steinitz and Lasker were more dominant for longer periods, Fischer was the most dominant player in the history of the game for about 3 years, and then Kasparov was the most dominant player  since Fischer, and for the longest period since Lasker. 

Capablanca's vaunted unbeaten streak was effectively over the course of five tournaments. Far more impressively, he defeated the defending champion, Emanuel Lasker, 2-0 during that unbeaten streak. Only Kramnik blanked a defending champion in a world championship match.

Capablanca is definitely great. but his dominance was never as clear-cut as his legend suggests. Marshall (Havana, 1913), Bogoljubov (Moscow 1925 and Bad Kissingen, 1928), Nimzovich (Carlsbad, 1929), and Lasker (St. Petersburg 1914 and New York 1924 and Moscow 1925 (2nd, where Capa finished 3rd), among others) all won major tournaments over Capablanca while the Cuban was at the height of his powers.  And Alekhin fairly convincingly defeated Capablanca in his first title defense in 1927. 

The fact that Capablanca didn't win every tournament is not a mark against him. However, he entered in few tournaments. If he really was as dominant as his legend proclaims, he should have done even better than he did! 

Again, I recognise that Capablanca was one of the all-time greats of chess. But let's not exaggerate how dominant he was.

Nobody can deny that Capablanca was a child prodigy and a tremendous player, & although he has one of the longest streak without loosing, but NOT loosing do NOT make you dominant, however, this is a testimony of his end game skills as He managed to saved numerous games were he went into the end game in a loosing position and yet somehow with determination manage to save the draw or in occassions even win.

Morphy no doubt was unbelievable dominant, too bad He died young at the peak of his time and his life in an unfortunate accident.

To my knowledge NOBODY has even come close to Bobbys record of 20 consecutives wins against Grand Masters including two UNPRECEDENTED consecutives "knock outs" 6-0 to World Champion challengers!! as impressive as this accomplishment may be, it is nothing to the strength of Morphy whom could literally grant a rook to a Grand Master of his time and still beat him and literally demolish every player who dare to sit in a match with him.

For this reason I believe Bobby takes 2nd behind Morphy.

Avatar of goldendog
mauriciolopezsr wrote:
 

To my knowledge NOBODY has even come close to Bobbys record of 20 consecutives wins against Grand Masters including two UNPRECEDENTED consecutives "knock outs" 6-0 to World Champion challengers!! as impressive as this accomplishment may be, it is nothing to the strength of Morphy whom could literally grant a rook to a Grand Master of his time and still beat him and literally demolish every player who dare to sit in a match with him.

For this reason I believe Bobby takes 2nd behind Morphy.

Steinitz had a longer streak.

Morphy could not and did not defeat any "GM" at rook odds.

Avatar of wildwood3006

hmm alekhine i believe was the top notch,during his time, the records speak for themselves,though i respect all the others like lasker and capa,but cannot overlook kasparov n karpov as best ever,very difficult question,as all have their favourites,many were ahead of their times,but my fav is alekhine.

Avatar of mauriciolopezsr
goldendog wrote:
mauriciolopezsr wrote:
 

To my knowledge NOBODY has even come close to Bobbys record of 20 consecutives wins against Grand Masters including two UNPRECEDENTED consecutives "knock outs" 6-0 to World Champion challengers!! as impressive as this accomplishment may be, it is nothing to the strength of Morphy whom could literally grant a rook to a Grand Master of his time and still beat him and literally demolish every player who dare to sit in a match with him.

For this reason I believe Bobby takes 2nd behind Morphy.

Steinitz had a longer streak.

Morphy could not and did not defeat any "GM" at rook odds.

I am NOT aware of him winning a game with Queen Rook odds, but I know He made the offer; probably NO ONE was daring enough to take him up as if he was to defeat him it would be a major embarrassment.

Steinitz never did won 20 CONSECUTIVES agains Grand Master, nor did he ever "knock out" a World Campion challenger 6-0! neither did Kasparov or Karpov or anyone else and again these guys were computer aided champions!! which is a tremendous advantage not available to Fischer or Morphy.

Avatar of goldendog
mauriciolopezsr wrote:

I am NOT aware of him winning a game with Queen Rook odds, but I know He made the offer; probably NO ONE was daring enough to take him up as if he was to defeat him it would be a major embarrassment.

Steinitz never did won 20 CONSECUTIVES agains Grand Master, nor did he ever "knock out" a World Campion challenger 6-0! neither did Kasparov or Karpov or anyone else and again these guys were computer aided champions!! which is a tremendous advantage not available to Fischer or Morphy.

He never offered rook odds to his fellow "GMs."

Steinitz did have a longer win streak, and he defeated Blackburne 7-0 in 1876.

Avatar of TetsuoShima

Fischer. 

Avatar of PhilipN

Wouldn't we all love to see a hypothetical double-round-robin featuring Carlsen, Kasparov, Fischer, and Morphy, all at the height of their powers?  Or perhaps a double round-robin with those four, plus Capablanca and either Alekhine, Steinitz, or Anderssen?

Avatar of fianchetto123
MSteen wrote:

When this thread is finished, perhaps we could all weigh in on some other topics that have as much chance of being settled:

4) If God can do anything, can he make a rock so big that he can't push it?

 

Let me see now. 

You know, there's a logical fallacy there I think. Whoever discovers what it is has my respect. Join the club lol. 

Seriously, there is a fallacy. 

Avatar of theoreticalboy

Yep, it's Steinitz, who of course kept his winning streak going in spite of his physical inability to last beyond half an hour without either taking a shot of absinthe or smacking a small child, which of course resulted in the memorable tales of fistfights with fellow pros whose children he attempted to sequester for this purpose during tournaments.

One cannot help but wonder how it may have been had Rubenstein not accepted that perilous Illuminati assignment to ghost-write the updated version of The 1001 Nights, removing all reference to the race of Gods formed entirely of nail clippings and mushed carrots in favour of the more mundane monotheistic exhultations found throughout.  Perhaps this conversation would have turned out differently; alas, that is all history now.

Avatar of TetsuoShima
pauljtx1 wrote:

Emanuel Lasker Because he was the world champion for a long time and he even gave Capablanca a run for his money~I believe they were more down to earth on the chess board than the players today

did he really give capa a run for his money?? Im not an expert but i mostly have watched the games were capa won. Also not to mention that Capa when he met the super suprise (at least i think it was) the marshal attack, he didnt lose. While Lasker got crushed by the marshal.

Also i dont know if its true, Lasker i think probably didnt play everyone, i also think he cheated Schlechter (but maybe thats just some myth)

Sure Capa Also lost big to Alekhine (i dont know why and how) but seriously i think Capablanca was definetly way stronger than Lasker. But maybe im wrong and some master can prove it.

Avatar of TetsuoShima

I think its a fallacy to automatically assume the next generation is stronger... Im not sure but i think i read somewere that Steinitz games had many blunders, while i didnt read that about Morphy. But i could have misread that, maybe they ment the games he played and not his own plunders.

Avatar of TetsuoShima

Also i still think  FIscher was the strongest, and im to weak to judge anyones play, but can you really say that today top gms are better then Kasparov were at his prime??? i dont think so, but maybe someone can prove me wrong

Avatar of pauljtx1
TetsuoShima wrote:
pauljtx1 wrote:

Emanuel Lasker Because he was the world champion for a long time and he even gave Capablanca a run for his money~I believe they were more down to earth on the chess board than the players today

did he really give capa a run for his money?? Im not an expert but i mostly have watched the games were capa won. Also not to mention that Capa when he met the super suprise (at least i think it was) the marshal attack, he didnt lose. While Lasker got crushed by the marshal.

Also i dont know if its true, Lasker i think probably didnt play everyone, i also think he cheated Schlechter (but maybe thats just some myth)

Sure Capa Also lost big to Alekhine (i dont know why and how) but seriously i think Capablanca was definetly way stronger than Lasker. But maybe im wrong and some master can prove it.

Avatar of pauljtx1

[

#1.)  NUREMBURG, 1896.  ALL  the chess historians and mathematicians agree that this was simply one of the strongest events ever played. VIRTUALLY EVERY PLAYER IN THE WORLD'S "TOP 15"  WAS PRESENT AT THIS EVENT!!!!! Try that today! Lasker ran away with this event. (Nobody went undefeated! It was simply too strong an event.) 

# 2.)  LONDON, 1899.  Another one of the strongest tournaments ever played. Of the world's top players, ONLY Tarrasch was missing. This was a DOUBLE-Round-Robin event. (Each contestant played the other TWICE!!) Lasker  DOMINATED  this event. He lost only  ONE GAME!  ... to the always dangerous Blackburne. I have now deeply studied just about ALL the games from this event. 

Practically  ...  every game that Lasker played  ...  was a great brilliancy!!!

# 3.)  Paris, 1900.   Another one of the strongest events ever held. Just about EVERY PLAYER was any good was present at this tournament. Once again ... Lasker dominated the play. (I think he lost one game ... to F.J. Marshall.) Again, Lasker was simply in a league of his own.

Avatar of TetsuoShima

thx for the information paul

Avatar of pauljtx1

 E. Lasker (2796) - J.R. Capablanca (2734) 
[C68]
Super-All Master Tournament (finals) 
St. Petersburg, (RUS) (Round # 7), 18.05.1914

[A.J. Goldsby I]
The ChessBase Medal for this game. (lask-capa_stp14-med.gif, 02 KB)

***************************************************************************************************************

One of the most well-known games of all time, and also a very important game - in terms 
of chess history.  (This contest also decided first place in the tournament.) 

It was rare - very rare - to see a game between two of the world's best players, and see 
them basically go all-out for a win. 
(This was the round seven encounter from the finals of the historic master tournament 
  in St. Petersburg.)

*************************

The ratings are exact, and come from  Jeff Sonas's  rating list for December 31st, 1913.
 (I would have rated Capa around 2750, based on his more recent performances.)

***

According to Jeff Sonas, these two contestants were clearly ... 
 THE TWO BEST PLAYERS!  ...  in the whole world. 

***************************************************************************************************************

1.e4 e5;  2.Nf3 Nc6;  3.Bb5 a6;  4.Bxc6,  
This is the Exchange Variation ...  designed to give White a small but steady pull in 
the ending.  (Lasker had used this before, and Capa had previously condemned 
it in print.) 

More than anything else, I think this variation shows respect. Lasker plays a line 
where only he has winning chances, and it is next to impossible to lose with. 

"A surprising choice ... "  - GM Garry Kasparov. 

   '!?' - GM Garry Kasparov.  

     [ The following moves:  4.Ba4 Nf65.0-0 Nxe46.d4 b57.Bb3 d5;  
        8.dxe5 Be69.Nbd2 Nc510.c3 d4!?; "~"  {Diagram?}  
        had been played between these same two players - in a previous 
        round. They only agreed to a draw after 100 moves had been made!! 

       J.R. Capablanca - Em. Lasker;  Final (winners) Section, Rd. # 2 
       St. Petersburg, Russia, 1914. ]   

 

4...dxc6;  5.d4!?,  
White immediately heads for a trade of the ladies ... and the ending that ensues. 

     [  More often than not:  >/=  5.0-0{Diagram?}  
        is played in this position today. 
        [See MCO, or any good book on the Ruy Lopez.]  

        5...f6!?{Diagram?}  
        Black has many moves at this point.  (...Bg4, ...Bd6; etc.) 

        6.d4 exd4!?{Diagram?}  
        This is probably the most reliable, although ...Bg4 is often played 
         in this position as well.  

           (6...Bg4!?;  "~")     

        7.Nxd4{Diagram?}  
        This seems to be best, although the capture with the Queen is both 
         interesting and playable.  

           (= 7.Qxd4!?, "+/=")      

        7...c5;   8.Nb3 Qxd19.Rxd1 Bg4;   10.f3 Be611.Nc3 Bd6; 
        12.Be3 b6{Diagram?}  The end of the column.  

        13.a4 Kf7!14.a5 c415.Nd4 b516.Nxe6 Kxe6; "="  {Diagram?}  
         GM Nick de Firmian considers this position to be equal, and I do not 
         disagree with him. 

        V. Meyers - GM A. Onischuk;  Hamburg, 1993. 

        [ See MCO-14;  page # 56, column # 2, and note # (k.). ]  ]   

 

5...exd4;  6.Qxd4 Qxd4;  7.Nxd4 Bd6!?;   
While this was condemned by many authors, it looks perfectly reasonable to me. 

     [  Opening theory recommends that Black play: 
         >/=  7...Bd7; "~{Diagram?}  in this position.  

        For example:  Kr. Georgiev (2529) - J.P. Le Roux (2364);  
       17th Masters Tourn, 2003.  (Black won a long game.)  ]   

 

8.Nc3 Ne7!?;  9.0-0,  
This is rather routine, but it is adequate for a (very) small edge for White. 

     [ 9.Bg5!? ]   

 

9...0-0;  10.f4 Re8!?;   
Some writers called this ...  "The Losing Move."  But this is simply ludicrous. 
In fact, ...Re8 looks very playable ... even good! ... to me. 

     [ Interesting was:  10...Bc5!?;   

       Or  >/=  10...f5!?; "~"  - Tarrasch ]  

 

White now withdraws the Knight ... 
knowing that too many exchanges will lead to a draw. 
11.Nb3 f6;  {See the diagram just below.}  

The great Capablanca wishes to restrain White's central pawn majority. 
This appears to be a very logical idea. 

 

  ***************  

lask-capa_stpete1914_pos01.gif, 08 KB

  ***************  

 

The normally sober Reti - whose judgment is usually very accurate - condemns this 
move, and attaches a whole question mark. To me, this is MUCH too severe and really 
an over-reaction to Capa's loss.

"An absolutely unnecessary defensive move ... "  -  GM Richard Reti. 

I have DEEPLY analyzed this game, with the help of computers and the latest chess 
programs. (Fritz 8.0) Just about all the programs evaluate this position as equal, or 
even as a little better for Black. The move ...f6; looks not only playable ... but like a 
wise precaution as well. 

     [  Black could also play:  11...Ng6!?{Diagram?}  

        or even the move:  11...Bg4!?{Diagram?}  
        but neither try looks as solid as the move actually 
        played by the great Capablanca.  

        Interesting was:  11...b6!?; "~{Diagram?} 
        possibly even with the idea of playing a later ...Pawn-at-a6-to-a5. ]  

 

12.f5!,  (Maybe - '!!')  {Diagram?}  
A glorious move. White risks a permanently backward e-pawn to cramp Black and 
keep Capa from being able to develop his Queen's Bishop in this position. 

   '!' - GM Garry Kasparov. 

     [  After the moves:  12.Be3!? Nd5!; "=/+{Diagram?}  
         Black is OK, maybe even slightly better. And a line like 
         this - that might catch the average player - clearly illustrates 
         the venom in Capablanca's set-up. 

        The continuation of: 12.Bd2!? Bd713.Rad1 Rad8; 
        14.h3!? b6!; "~{Diagram?}  
         (with the idea of ...Pawn-at-a6 to-a5); leaves Black with 
         no real problems.  ]   

 

12...b6!?;   
This move has many purposes, to prevent a White piece from landing on the 
c5-square, and also allow Black to be able to develop his Queen's Bishop.

This was criticized as VERY weak by several authors, (Amos Burn); yet it 
appears to me that Black may have to play this sooner or later.  

     [ Maybe better was: 12...a5!?; ('!')  "~{Diagram?}  
        with the idea of ...a5-to-a4. ("=/+") ]   

 

13.Bf4 Bb7?!;  (Hmmm.)  {Diagram?}  
This move has been viciously attacked and has even been labeled (by some) 
 as the losing move. (again) 
{One author even gave this move a DOUBLE-QUESTION MARK, and said: 
  "After this, Black is unable to save his game."} 

   '?' - GM Andrew Soltis.   '?' - IM Amos Burn.  

   '?!' - GM Garry Kasparov. ("My Great Predecessors," Part I.) 

The main drawback to this move is that White leaves Black with a very weak and 
permanently backward pawn on the d6-square. And while this move  is indeed 
inadequate,  I am 100% certain that this move (alone) is  not  the reason for Black's 
loss in this game.

Maybe Capablanca believed that Lasker would NEVER un-double his pawns??? 
If so, this would go a very long way in explaining Capablanca's conduct of this 
whole opening!

     [  With the very simple moves of: >/= 13...Bxf414.Rxf4 Rd8; ('!') 
         This is probably the best move here. 

***

             ( Lasker, Capablanca, Nimzovich, and many others give a long line 
               that begins with ...c5; here. The analysis of that line is quite extensive. 
               I will give the very short version here:  
               14...c5; ('!?')  15.Rd1 Bb7{Diagram?}  
               Capa and Nimzo got this far in their analysis.  
               16.Rf2 Rad817.Rxd8{Diagram?}  
               The correct move, according to the great Lasker himself.  

                    ( Capa gave Rfd2?! here ... but that is not at all that impressive.         
                      17.Rfd2?! Rxd2;  {Diagram?}  This was thought to be incorrect.         
                      18.Rxd2 Bc6!; "~"  ("=/+")  {Diagram?}         
                       and Black has nothing to fear.        
                       (One plan for Black is simply to play ...Kf7; ...Rc8; ...Ke8; and        
                         then ...Rd8; trading Rooks.)  )        

               17...Rxd818.Rd2 Rxd219.Nxd2{Diagram?}  
               Lasker got this far.  

               Now I found a major improvement.   
               19...Nc8!20.Kf2 Nd621.Ke3 Kf7!;  "="  {Diagram?}  
               Black is fine here, ALL the key squares are covered.  

               Black has a very durable position here, MULTIPLE computer tests 
               have confirmed this. (That Black has at least a draw from here. )  

***

       15.Rff1 Bb716.Rad1 c5; "=" {Diagram?}  
        Black has almost full equality.  ]   

 

14.Bxd6!,   
The correct idea. Although this 'repairs'  Black's Pawn Structure, 
Capa will always ... "feel the heat" down the d-file ... 
for the rest of the game. 

   '!' - GM Andrew Soltis.   

     [ 14.Rad1 Bxf415.Rxf4 Rad8; "~" ]  

 

14...cxd6;  15.Nd4!,  
White immediately heads for the "outpost" square on e6. 

"Capablanca admitted that he did not see this move when he played 13...Bb7."
  - GM Garry Kasparov. ("My Great Predecessors," Part I.)  ??? (Source?) 

     [  Average moves don't put any pressure on Capa, i.e., 
        15.Rf2!? Rad816.Nd4 Bc8;  and Black appears to be fine. ]   

 

15...Rad8?;   
Just plain silly. While the piece congestion that Black experiences after this 
move may not be terminal, Capa is made to suffer for a long time. 

   '?' - GM Garry Kasparov. (CB)   '?' - GM Andrew Soltis.  

Black simply had to swallow his pride, and play ...Bc8[];  in this position.  

     [  Black should play: >/=  15...Bc8; "="  {Diagram?}  
        with a strange position.  

        or even  15...Ra7!?; "~"  ]   

 

16.Ne6 Rd7;  17.Rad1 Nc8!?;  (Maybe - '?!')   {Diagram?}  
I think this is exactly the kind of position that calls for endless maneuvering.  
I also don't think this move is near as bad as it has been made out to be. But Capa  
and Soltis both harshly condemn this move. The great Cuban goes one step further, 
calling it  ...  "the fatal error."  

   '?' - Jose R. Capablanca   '?' - GM Andrew Soltis.  

In his book, "The Art Of Defense," Soltis postulates that ... the majority of the time ... 
 one weakness alone is usually NOT enough to lose a game!!   If he is correct, all  
Capa has to do is avoid creating any more problems, and avoid opening lines - 
and he should be able to hold this position. 

Another point to consider is that the move ...Nc8;  has no real effect on most programs 
evaluations' of this particular position. Objectively, a truly bad move is going to have 
some impact on the way a machine 'scores'  the position! 

     [  Capa said better was:  17...c5!?{Diagram?}  in this position.  
        But I am not so sure about this. (Black gains a diagonal for his 
        Bishop, but White might play a later Nd5.)  

        Many strong programs - like Fritz and ChessMaster - pick the 
        move:  17...Kf7!?{Diagram?}  in this position. 

        The move:  17...a5!?{Diagram?} 
        might also be playable in this position.  ]  

 

18.Rf2 b5!?;  (Maybe - '?!')  {Diagram?}  
Black gains some Q-side space. 

Probably the case of the wrong pawn. By advancing his QRP, with 
the idea of ...Ba6-c4xe6; I think Black may be able to hold the balance.  

Black plans a later ...a5, but he is never given that chance.

     [ After the move,  >/=  18...a5!; "~"  (Maybe "=")  {Diagram?}  
       I don't think Black will lose. 
       (I played a correspondence game, {from this particular position}; 
        with a player who is one of the better correspondence players - 
        at least by rating - in the USA. I held the draw ...  without  any 
        great difficulties.)  

        Interesting was:  18...Kf7!? (Unclear?) ]    

 

19.Rfd2 Rde7; ('!')  
Correctly side-stepping White's battery, and avoiding any later tactical tricks.

20.b4!,  
This gains space, and fixes Black's Queen-side Pawns. It is also useful (later) 
when Lasker wants to open lines on that side of the board.  

   '!' - GM Andrew Soltis.  

     [ Interesting was: 20.Kf2!? ]   

 

20...Kf7;  
It is very useful to have the King a little nearer the center in some variations. 

     [ One author suggested ...c5 here, but I think he was on crank:  
        20...c5?!; ('?')  21.bxc5! dxc522.Nxc5 b4!?23.Nd5, '±'  {Diag?}  
        and White is clearly MUCH better in this position.  (Maybe "+/-")  ]   

 

We are coming to a very critical point in this game. 
21.a3 Ba8?!;  (Probably - '?')    {See the diagram just below.}     
"The question mark is deserved, not by the move, but for the idea to open 
  the a-file, which can be used effectively only by the white rooks. Of course 
  Black has lost the strategical battle,  ... " 
  - GM Garry Kasparov. 

   '?' - GM Garry Kasparov. (CB & MGP)  '?' - GM Andrew Soltis.  

 

  ***************  

lask-capa_stpete1914_pos02.gif, 07 KB

  ***************  

"Once more changing my plan ... and this time, without good reason." 
  - GM J.R. Capablanca. 

In the end ... I think Black's next move should simply be ...Bb7.  

     [  Maybe  21...Rh8!?;  was better?  

        </= 21...Nb6?22.Rxd6 Nc423.Rd7, '±'  - GM Andy Soltis.  

        Capa  said that Black should try: >/=  21...Rxe622.fxe6+ Rxe6{D?} 
        as being better than the game - and he may be right. But I think that 
        Lasker would have eventually found a way to win with his extra material.  ]  

 

22.Kf2 Ra7!?;  
Continuing a bad plan, placing the Bishop back on the b7-square may 
have been wiser.

     [ 22...Bb7!? ]  

 

Kasparov gives White's 23rd move here an exclam. ("23.g4!" - GM G. Kasparov.) 
23.g4, ('!')  23...h6;  
Preparing a <break-through> on the King-side. 

24.Rd3 a5?!(Probably - '?')  
Just about every manual ever written on defense ... says that the  LAST  thing 
a defender of a bad position should do is open lines --->  for the attacker  ...  
or the player who is better!!   

(Soltis makes no comment here or attaches any kind of mark at all to 
 Black's 24th move.) 

At chess club one  night, I played ...Rae7; and then ...Bb7; and no one was 
able to prove a win for White. (There was one Master, and many strong players 
were also present. They actually lost many times trying break Black's position 
open.)  

   '?' - GM Garry Kasparov.  ("My Great Predecessors," Part I.) 

     [  I am sure that >/=  24...Rae7!?; "~{Diagram?}   
         with maybe ...Bb7; next move, was much better than the game. ]  

 

25.h4 axb4!?;  26.axb4 Rae7?{Diagram?}  
Any good reason ...  for abandoning the open a-file here ... 
escapes me completely. 

   '?' - GM Andrew Soltis.  [ '?!' - GM Garry Kasparov.  (MGP, Pt. I) ]  

"The only consistent move was 26...Ra3."  - GM A. Soltis.  
(Capa said Black could draw here with ...Rxe6, but I don't buy it.) 

     [  I like  >/=  26...Ree7!; "~"  {Diagram?}  
        when White might be a shade better, but Black 
        has chances to defend.  

        </= 26...Rxe6?!27.fxe6+ Kxe628.Ne2, "+/=" (Maybe - '±')  {D?} 
        (Capa  claims Black could defend here, but I have my doubts.) 

        Maybe better was:  26...Ra3!?{Diagram?}  
         - GM Andrew Soltis.  ]   

 

27.Kf3 Rg8;  28.Kf4 g6!?;  
Black now continues on his course of trying to open lines ...  
perhaps looking for counterplay. 

   '?!' - GM Garry Kasparov.  (MGP, Part. # 1.)  

     [ Possibly  28...Rge8!?{Diagram?}  was playable? 

       Kasparov recommends 28...g5+;  here instead. ]   

 

29.Rg3!?,  
A very logical move, the great Lasker plans on playing g4-g5,
but only after due preparation. (Soltis says g5 immediately is better, but I 
have analyzed this position deeply ... even spending years on this game. 
I am not entirely convinced that Soltis is correct.) 

Better was >/= 29.g5! - Soltis.

"This move prolongs matters ... "  - GM Andrew Soltis.  

     [  After the moves: =  29.g5!? hxg5+30.hxg5 Rh8!{Diagram?}  
        Black gains the h-file. (If Rg1, then ...Ra7!) I let  Fritz 6.0  run for 
        over an hour one afternoon on this position. Although White is 
        probably better, NO forced win was immediately evident.  

        ( Soltis only gives the grossly inferior continuation of:       
          </=  30...gxf5?; ('??')  31.exf5 fxg5+?!; 32.Nxg5+ Kf8;      
          33.Ne6+ Kf7; 34.Ne4!, ("±")  {Diagram?}        
          and White probably wins.  (Probably  "+/-".) )       

        I think it was better to play: >/=  29.Ra1! Bb730.g5!, "+/="  {Diag?}  
        with a small, but clear advantage for White.  ]   

 

Black may have done better to avoid his next move entirely ...  
the open h-file is one open line too many.  
29...g5+!?;  {Diagram?}  
Black figures he may as well try and play this ... and stop White from playing 
g5! himself.  

"Now White will open the King's Rook file with (a) decisive advantage."  
  - GM Richard Reti. 

"The last move to be criticised by the annotators. 
   But it's too late for good advice."  
   - GM Garry Kasparov.  

 *** 

     [ Tarrasch, Brinckmann, and Chernev recommend that Black play the 
        move: 29...P/g6xP/f5?;  ----->  but their analysis has more holes than 
        swiss cheese! {My analysis of this line now runs almost a page and 
        a half alone ... so I will definitely skip it here.}  

        (I have had literally dozens of requests for my analysis of this line. 10/30/04) 

        29...gxf5?!('?')   {Diagram?}   
        This move was recommended by Tarrasch, but I have doubts about this approach. 
        {According to some programs,  White's advantage DOUBLES after this inaccurate move.}  

                                                              ************   

        Brinckmann, (also quoted by poor Chernev); give the following (horrible) analysis:   

        30.exf5 d5{Diagram?}   White is clearly better here. 

        Now Fritz (6.0) likes g5 here...     
        31.Rdg1!? Nd6;  32.g5?!{Diagram?}  
        Premature. (This advance must be timed a little better.)  

            (>/= 32.Re1 "+/=")    

        32...hxg5+;  33.hxg5 fxg5+?(Probably - '??')  {Diagram?}    
        Gross, and an oversight.  

            ( Why not: >/= 33...Nxf5; ('!')  "/+"  {Diagram?}     
             
which practically wins for Black - in this line? )    

       34.Nxg5+ Ke8; 35.Ne6?!('?')  {Diagram?}    
        This misses a much better move for White.   

            (After the move:  >/= 35.Nge4!, "+/="  White is clearly better.)    

       35...Rxg3;  36.Rxg3 Ra7??{Diagram?}   
        Throws the game away.   

            >/= 36...Rf7; "~"  (Maybe "=" or "+/=")  )     

        37.Rg8+ Ke7;  38.Rg7+ Nf7;  39.Ng5 Kf8?!;  40.Rxf7+?, ('??')  {Diagram?}   
        Just plain stupid.   

            ( The simple  40.f6!, "+/-"  wins easily for White. )     

        40...Rxf7;  41.Nxf7 Kxf7;  42.Kg5,  "+/="  (Maybe - '±')   {Diagram?}    
         ... "and White wins."  But this analysis has more holes than swiss cheese!  {A.J.G.}   

       (This note added, and the game updated on  Thursday;  November 4th, 2004.)  ]   

***

     [  Maybe better was: >/= 29...Ra7!? {Diagram?}  
         and delay opening more lines.  ]  

 

Now if White plays PxP, PxP/g5+; and Black will play ...Rh8 here the next move. 
(Black's defensive resources might be enough to hold.) 
30.Kf3! Nb6?!;  ('?')  {Diagram?}  
This is very trappy, but I am not entirely sure if it is best. 
("A desperate try." - Kasparov.  Soltis makes no comment on this particular move.) 

Maybe Rxe6 was better than Nb6. 
(A BIG emphasis on the word, 'maybe' here!) 

Most programs notice a fairly substantial change in their evaluations of the 
position/game after this move. 

  (Is this the losing move?)    

     [  It seemed Black had to play:  >/=  30...gxh4; ('!')  31.Rh3 Ra7!;  
        32.Rxh4, "+/="  (Probably  -  "±")   {Diagram?}  
        White is clearly better here, and  Black's position  is extremely  
        ugly ... but  anything even resembling a forced win is NOT immediately 
        evident. (!!!)  
        {In several tests at the time control of <game in one hour>, the latest version 
         of Crafty is unable to defeat Junior 6.0 from this position.}  

         (I have spent over 25 years analyzing this game, and I have tested this position 
          on nearly every available computer program. With perfect play, a draw may yet 
          be possible!!!  It is certainly superior to the continuation in the game!)  ]   

 

31.hxg5!,   
The correct move.  

Capa left the d-pawn as bait, but Lasker does not bite!  

Now White gets to use the h-file as well ... and I think this dooms Black.  

   '!' - GM Garry Kasparov.  (MGP, Part. # 1)  

     [ After the moves: </=  31.Rxd6?! Nc4!32.Rd4!? Ne5+{Diagram?}  
        ... "Black is back in the game." ("=/+")  - GM Andrew Soltis. ]  

 

31...hxg5;  
This was obviously forced.  

     [ 31...Nc4??32.gxh6, "+/-" ]  

 

32.Rh3!,   {Diagram?}   
"Much stronger than taking the QP, which would have given Black  
  counter-chances by ...R-R1 and ...Knight-to-B5."  - GM Richard Reti.  

(Soltis makes no comment here.) 

   '!' - GM Garry Kasparov.   (MGP, Part # 1.) 

 

      [ 32.Rxd6!? ]  

 

32...Rd7;  
This is probably best.  

     [  Maybe a little worse would have been the continuation:  
         </= 32...Nc433.Rh7+ Ke834.Ra1! Bb735.Nc7+ Kd7;  
         36.Rxe7+ Kxe737.Ra7 Rb8?!38.Na6, '±'  (Maybe  "+/-")  {D?}  
          - GM Richard Reti]  

 

Lasker now vacates the long diagonal ... the reasons for this are far from obvious. 
(And just about ALL the authors who have annotated this game have praised Lasker's 
 33rd move in this game. But Soltis makes no comment.)  
33.Kg3! Ke8;  34.Rdh1 Bb7!?;  {See the diagram ... just below here.}   
Black struggles to try and hold the balance.  

"Black is running out of moves."  - Irving Chernev.  

 

  ***************  

lask-capa_stpete1914_pos03.gif, 07 KB

  ***************  

 

 

     [  Was the move:  34...Kf7!?{Diagram?}  
         an improvement here?  

        </=    34...Ra7?35.Rh8!  "+/-"  {Diagram?}   

        </= 34...Nc4??35.Rh8 Rxh836.Rxh8+ Ke737.Rxa8, "+/-" ]   

 

Now White breaks through with one of the best illustrative examples of a 
breakthrough / clearance sacrifice ... from an actua

Avatar of pauljtx1

32.Rh3!,   {Diagram?}   
"Much stronger than taking the QP, which would have given Black  
  counter-chances by ...R-R1 and ...Knight-to-B5."  - GM Richard Reti.  

(Soltis makes no comment here.) 

   '!' - GM Garry Kasparov.   (MGP, Part # 1.) 

 

      [ 32.Rxd6!? ]  

 

32...Rd7;  
This is probably best.  

     [  Maybe a little worse would have been the continuation:  
         </= 32...Nc433.Rh7+ Ke834.Ra1! Bb735.Nc7+ Kd7;  
         36.Rxe7+ Kxe737.Ra7 Rb8?!38.Na6, '±'  (Maybe  "+/-")  {D?}  
          - GM Richard Reti]  

 

Lasker now vacates the long diagonal ... the reasons for this are far from obvious. 
(And just about ALL the authors who have annotated this game have praised Lasker's 
 33rd move in this game. But Soltis makes no comment.)  
33.Kg3! Ke8;  34.Rdh1 Bb7!?;  {See the diagram ... just below here.}   
Black struggles to try and hold the balance.  

"Black is running out of moves."  - Irving Chernev.  

 

  ***************  

lask-capa_stpete1914_pos03.gif, 07 KB

  ***************  

 

 

     [  Was the move:  34...Kf7!?{Diagram?}  
         an improvement here?  

        </=    34...Ra7?35.Rh8!  "+/-"  {Diagram?}   

        </= 34...Nc4??35.Rh8 Rxh836.Rxh8+ Ke737.Rxa8, "+/-" ]   

 

Now White breaks through with one of the best illustrative examples of a 
breakthrough / clearance sacrifice ... from an actual game. 
("A textbook example," says Soltis.) 
 35.e5!!,    (Maybe - '!!!')  {Diagram?}  
Completely inspired and brilliant.  (A Knight comes to e4, and Black can no longer 
defend all the key squares and open lines.) 

"An artistic vacating sacrifice."  - Irving Chernev. 

According to one account in a Russian newspaper, Capa literally sagged in 
his chair. It was obvious that he had overlooked this move. 
(And without this breakthrough, a win may  NOT  be possible.) 

   '!!' - GM Garry Kasparov.   (MGP, Part # 1.) 

     [  Interesting was:  35.Rh6!?, '±'  ]  

 

35...dxe5;  
This could be forced here.  

     [  </=  35...fxe5?!36.Ne4 Nd537.Rh7! Bc8;  
         38.Rh8!, "+/-"  {Diagram?}  - GM Andy Soltis.  

        </=  35...d5?;   36.exf6 Kf737.Nc5, "+/-"  {Diagram?} 
         ...  "is crushing."  - GM Andy Soltis  ]  

 

Now Black continues to squirm, but cannot get off the hook. 
(If it makes you happy, you may give both of White's next two 
 moves an exclam.) 
36.Ne4 Nd5;  37.N6c5,  {Diagram?} 
   
'!' - GM Garry Kasparov.   (MGP, Part # 1.)  

   [ 37.Rh8!? ] 

 

37...Bc8;  
Unfortunately this is forced.  

"Black must give up the exchange here."  - Dr. J. Hannak. 
 (Possibly quoting Reti.)  

White now finishes off sharply.  (By encirclement.) 
38.Nxd7 Bxd7;  39.Rh7 Rf8;  40.Ra1, ('!')  {D?}  
    '!' - GM Garry Kasparov.   (MGP, Part # 1.) 

40...Kd8;  41.Ra8+ Bc8;  42.Nc5,  ("+/-")  {Diagram?}  Black Resigns.  (1 - 0) 

{White threatens several mates ... and/or a win on material. The cutest is 42...Nb6; 
(This is forced. White now threatened Rd7+! and Rxc8#.) 
 43.Nb7+, Ke8;  44.Nd6+, Kd8; 45.Rb8, and Black loses a piece, because if he 
 moves his Knight on b6, RxB/c8 is mate.} 

(A long and thunderous applause for Lasker followed Capa's resignation here.
  Meanwhile Capa sat 'dejected, in a chair ...with his head in his hands.') 

"This was Lasker's most glorious victory, and more than worthy of a 
   great occasion."
  The one and only - Irving Chernev.  

For perhaps 75 years, writers - echoing ideas like Chernev, (see just above); 
and Fine - hailed this as one of the finest games of Lasker's career.  

"The psychological effect of this brilliant victory was long-lasting. A shaken Capablanca
  lost with White in the next round to Dr. Tarrasch. And even seven years later, in his world 
  championship match against Lasker, he never played 3...a6; (!) in the Ruy Lopez!" 
  - From the CB annotation of this game.  (Reti, Kasparov, etc.)  

Lasker's play in this game was simply incredible, but Capa's play was absolutely very, 
very poor. (I think it also should be clear by now that Capablanca's defeat in this game 
is NOT due to any ONE move!! Rather, it was an accumulation of less-than-best ideas, 
bad strategy, inaccuracies, and doubtful moves that caused Capa's downfall here. 
 Perhaps Capa was a victim of his own press?   Did he begin to believe he was literally 
invulnerable over the chess-board ... as some had begun to say? (It had been years since
he had lost a SERIOUS tournament game, since maybe 1909. His play does seem to 
indicate this.)  

GM Andy Soltis  gives the amusing commentary of:  
<< "One of the landmarks of chess history," wrote Fine.  But Amos Burn 
        was more accurate
 when he said the game was "simply one of the 
        worst"
  Capablanca ever played!
  >>  
       (Soltis considers this a very over-rated game.)

*************************

Bibliography: 

This game has been annotated an almost countless number of times, in books, 
magazines, and newspaper columns. It would be impossible to find and  - and 
also consult - every single reference, as ever concerns this epic encounter. But 
I think I have found enough different sources ... and also freely looked at enough 
(sometimes opposing) opinions about this game ... to do at least an adequate 
job. I also have thoroughly computer-checked all of my analysis!

Avatar of TetsuoShima

Paul according to some gm, im  parroting now, Capablanca seemed to have underestimated Lasker in that game and thats why he lost.

Avatar of royalbishop

Interesting post. It would take me a while to read it as i have already been online for over 12 hrs consecutively. Working on my groups and games simultaneously.

Avatar of Asvestoulis

I prefer Kramnik and Anand than Carlsen! I dont like intelligent kids