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Who was the all time best

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chess2Knights
chess2Knights
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Apr 15, 2011
0
#301

I will vote for Alekhine.

goldendog
goldendog
Apr 16, 2011
0
#302
raul72 wrote:

Goldendog, I've never gone through those radio interviews---that is a big waste of time. Fischer is usually talking drivel. If you do, you have a lot of free time on your hands dont you amigo.

I've heard a few of them and read others, over the course of 10 years. How does that add up? On the other hand, who here is posting and doesn't have a lot of free time on their hands, hmmm?

 When Fischer says he was spending a lot of money and was making a lot of money (on investments) it made sense. When he said I have almost as much money now as I did in 92---it made sense when you saw how much money he had when he died.

You'd have to do some research to know, which isn't nearly as good as guessing. I'd happily listen to some facts, even speculation, but there's no way we should confuse the two.

I dont believe him when he doesnt make sense---like the Bekins thing. Thats mostly hogwash. Goldendog, if you just knew a little bit about Fischer you would know when he is probably telling the truth and when he definitely talking bullshit.

Yeah I have a fair idea when he is definitely outside the realm of reality, but why is it that when you disagree with someone they get elevated to fool or ignoramus status? I don't fully get it. Someone like you who knows a bit about chess culture I'd expect to be happily sharing that knowledge here but it seems it's always alloyed with antagonism and a I'm not wrong chip on your shoulder.

Why?

raul72
raul72
Apr 16, 2011
0
#303
goldendog wrote:
raul72 wrote:

Goldendog, I've never gone through those radio interviews---that is a big waste of time. Fischer is usually talking drivel. If you do, you have a lot of free time on your hands dont you amigo.

I've heard a few of them and read others, over the course of 10 years. How does that add up? On the other hand, who here is posting and doesn't have a lot of free time on their hands, hmmm?

 When Fischer says he was spending a lot of money and was making a lot of money (on investments) it made sense. When he said I have almost as much money now as I did in 92---it made sense when you saw how much money he had when he died.

You'd have to do some research to know, which isn't nearly as good as guessing. I'd happily listen to some facts, even speculation, but there's no way we should confuse the two.

I dont believe him when he doesnt make sense---like the Bekins thing. Thats mostly hogwash. Goldendog, if you just knew a little bit about Fischer you would know when he is probably telling the truth and when he definitely talking bullshit.

Yeah I have a fair idea when he is definitely outside the realm of reality, but why is it that when you disagree with someone they get elevated to fool or ignoramus status? I don't fully get it. Someone like you who knows a bit about chess culture I'd expect to be happily sharing that knowledge here but it seems it's always alloyed with antagonism and a I'm not wrong chip on your shoulder.

Why?

 Several people said they had gone through all the radio shows and you did post a broadcast.

You say---

"I've heard a few of them and read others, over the course of 10 years. How does that add up? On the other hand, who here is posting and doesn't have a lot of free time on their hands, hmmm?"

 I hope you're kidding---I spend less than a tenth of the time you spend on this site. Like Fischer, most of the stuff on this site is juvenile drivel. Very little is worth reading. Check out your posts this past week and then count mine. Buddy, its going to be at least 10 to 1 in your favor.

 

You sound like you want me to give you hard research when I post? Who in the world does that. What I'm mostly going to give is an educated guess that has a ring of truth to it. Thats more than I get when I read the forum.

You seem to think the guys around here need protection from big, bad Raul. I only attack when I'm attacked. I've learned a long time ago---guys dont like to be corrected. Guys dont like to admit they made a mistake. Chess talk is peculiar---its an ego thing. If someone is nice to me, I'll be nice to them---but I'm still going to correct them which will piss them off. Smile 

A case in point---I was playing at the club one night with an old veteran. I noticed in several games he would start counting squares to see if his king could catch my pawn. You know the routine---if I go there he goes there and i go there etc.

I asked him if he wanted to know how to eliminate all that counting, eliminate that headache---its called the "square of the pawn."  He told me that he didnt need me to teach him anything. I guess he didnt want to appear to be stupid.

TheOldReb
NM TheOldReb
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Apr 16, 2011
0
#304
fyy0r wrote:
raul72 wrote:
fyy0r wrote:
raul72 wrote:

You didn't finish the quote---"I just want to play chess until i'm 29!!"

After Fischer made his millions in 92' he lived very well for the rest of his life. He travelled, he ate in the best restaurants, He consorted with pretty girls who were half his age. Like Spassky, Karpov, and Kasparov---he was living the high life. He was spending money like it was water and he was loving it.  And, he left quite a bit for friends and relatives to fight over when he went to live in that glorious chess club in the sky.

 As per Karpov--- I refer to Sex 101 ---Short, dull, funny looking guys with beautiful dolls draped all over them ---are rich!

This first sex lesson is free. If you require more it will cost you.

Bobby Fischer had $3 million (listen here) left out of approx $3.5 million of his winnings in 1992 when he died, not exactly "living the high life".  His 1972 earnings were gone, mostly thanks to the Worldwide Church of God donations he gave with a big smile on his face (and later regretted).  His book earnings ran dry, his 1972 winnings were gone, so he resurfaced in 1992 in order to get some cash to live on for the rest of his life.  The 1992 rematch he won, which gave him somewhere around $3.5 million, which he lived on until he died only using approx $500,000 of it. 

 Man oh man---I wish you guys who like to talk Fischer actually knew something about Fischer. There must be a hundred books on Fischer---perhaps that many dvds and radio interviews etc., etc.

Fischer said on interviews over the radio that he invested heavily in precious metals after he won the 3.5 million. He said "I spend a million and I make a million. he said in 2006 or 2007 that although he was spending money like it was going out of style---he still had as almost as much as he had in 92'.

I suggest you do better research before making these incorrect statements about Fischer.

 

You may be correct on the precious metals part.  Although I doubt you listened to all the radio interviews in order to garner that knowledge.  Because I have, and the number of hours of mindless jew hating is tough to sift through when looking for chess related insight from the man.  It's a pity I have to side against Fischer with you, because he's one of my top 5 favorites, but someone must, because other greats don't get enough credit from you in my opinion.  

 

I side against Fischer when talking with raul72, because you are head over heels in love with him

I side with Fischer when talking with Fezzik, because he treats him like an ex husband

Funny how that works.

Of all the GIANTS of chess Fischer and Spassky will always be my favorites and its because of their match in 72 that I got involved in serious/tournament chess. For this reason they are my favorites and Fischer beats out Spassky ( as a chess player ) because he won their match and he is American afterall ...... yeah , I have a tad of nationalism in me..... who doesnt ??  As far as Fischer going nuts and becoming a paranoid, hatefilled, bitter  human being in the endgame of his life this has no influence on me when rating him as a chess player and the contribution he made to the game that brings all of us here. 

marcelom2
marcelom2
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Apr 16, 2011
0
#305

yoLaughingu can only vote Fischer hereCool

RathHood
RathHood
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Apr 16, 2011
0
#306
Reb wrote:
Of all the GIANTS of chess Fischer and Spassky will always be my favorites and its because of their match in 72 that I got involved in serious/tournament chess. For this reason they are my favorites and Fischer beats out Spassky ( as a chess player ) because he won their match and he is American afterall ...... yeah , I have a tad of nationalism in me..... who doesnt ??  As far as Fischer going nuts and becoming a paranoid, hatefilled, bitter  human being in the endgame of his life this has no influence on me when rating him as a chess player and the contribution he made to the game that brings all of us here. 

That's right it's always personal view. In my opinion Kasparov was the best, but I can perfectly understand why some people see Capa, Fischer,Alekhine or any other of the great players as #1. It's always subjective - nationality matters and lots of other preferences. This question 'Who was the best' will remain open.

dannyhume
dannyhume
Apr 16, 2011
0
#307

As long as we can all agree Alekhine was a Nazi scumbag and Capablanca is cuban.  

TheOldReb
NM TheOldReb
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Apr 16, 2011
0
#308
dannyhume wrote:

As long as we can all agree Alekhine was a Nazi scumbag and Capablanca is cuban.  

It hard for me to buy this trash since his wife was jewish. 

fyy0r
fyy0r
Apr 16, 2011
0
#309
Reb wrote:
fyy0r wrote:
raul72 wrote:
fyy0r wrote:
raul72 wrote:

You didn't finish the quote---"I just want to play chess until i'm 29!!"

After Fischer made his millions in 92' he lived very well for the rest of his life. He travelled, he ate in the best restaurants, He consorted with pretty girls who were half his age. Like Spassky, Karpov, and Kasparov---he was living the high life. He was spending money like it was water and he was loving it.  And, he left quite a bit for friends and relatives to fight over when he went to live in that glorious chess club in the sky.

 As per Karpov--- I refer to Sex 101 ---Short, dull, funny looking guys with beautiful dolls draped all over them ---are rich!

This first sex lesson is free. If you require more it will cost you.

Bobby Fischer had $3 million (listen here) left out of approx $3.5 million of his winnings in 1992 when he died, not exactly "living the high life".  His 1972 earnings were gone, mostly thanks to the Worldwide Church of God donations he gave with a big smile on his face (and later regretted).  His book earnings ran dry, his 1972 winnings were gone, so he resurfaced in 1992 in order to get some cash to live on for the rest of his life.  The 1992 rematch he won, which gave him somewhere around $3.5 million, which he lived on until he died only using approx $500,000 of it. 

 Man oh man---I wish you guys who like to talk Fischer actually knew something about Fischer. There must be a hundred books on Fischer---perhaps that many dvds and radio interviews etc., etc.

Fischer said on interviews over the radio that he invested heavily in precious metals after he won the 3.5 million. He said "I spend a million and I make a million. he said in 2006 or 2007 that although he was spending money like it was going out of style---he still had as almost as much as he had in 92'.

I suggest you do better research before making these incorrect statements about Fischer.

 

You may be correct on the precious metals part.  Although I doubt you listened to all the radio interviews in order to garner that knowledge.  Because I have, and the number of hours of mindless jew hating is tough to sift through when looking for chess related insight from the man.  It's a pity I have to side against Fischer with you, because he's one of my top 5 favorites, but someone must, because other greats don't get enough credit from you in my opinion.  

 

I side against Fischer when talking with raul72, because you are head over heels in love with him

I side with Fischer when talking with Fezzik, because he treats him like an ex husband

Funny how that works.

Of all the GIANTS of chess Fischer and Spassky will always be my favorites and its because of their match in 72 that I got involved in serious/tournament chess. For this reason they are my favorites and Fischer beats out Spassky ( as a chess player ) because he won their match and he is American afterall ...... yeah , I have a tad of nationalism in me..... who doesnt ??  As far as Fischer going nuts and becoming a paranoid, hatefilled, bitter  human being in the endgame of his life this has no influence on me when rating him as a chess player and the contribution he made to the game that brings all of us here. 

 

I love Spassky, that guy is so laid back and chilled.  And the amount of respect he showed Fischer (I already posted about the details a page or two back) without seeing much in return is unbelievable. 

Another example I can think of is his letter to the president about the 1992 match in Yugoslavia, where the government condemned Fischer partaking in it.  Spassky wrote to the president "Well I took part in it too, so if you want to jail Fischer, jail me as well and put us in the same cell with a chessboard".   Fischer's response when he saw the letter was something along the lines of "Bah! I don't want a cell with him, put me in a cell with that Kosteniuk chick".  

Fischer has said if Spassky wasn't Russian they would probably have been good friends.  Fischer referred to Spassky as his "frienemy".

Myself personally, I didn't know much about Spassky before reading about him in their 1972 match, but once I did my respect for him jumped 10 fold and now he's one of my favorite players.  Laid back, chilled, funny, loves chess, and is great at it.

Watch Spassky, love Spassky

raul72
raul72
Apr 16, 2011
0
#310
fyy0r wrote:
Reb wrote:
fyy0r wrote:
raul72 wrote:
fyy0r wrote:
raul72 wrote:

You didn't finish the quote---"I just want to play chess until i'm 29!!"

After Fischer made his millions in 92' he lived very well for the rest of his life. He travelled, he ate in the best restaurants, He consorted with pretty girls who were half his age. Like Spassky, Karpov, and Kasparov---he was living the high life. He was spending money like it was water and he was loving it.  And, he left quite a bit for friends and relatives to fight over when he went to live in that glorious chess club in the sky.

 As per Karpov--- I refer to Sex 101 ---Short, dull, funny looking guys with beautiful dolls draped all over them ---are rich!

This first sex lesson is free. If you require more it will cost you.

Bobby Fischer had $3 million (listen here) left out of approx $3.5 million of his winnings in 1992 when he died, not exactly "living the high life".  His 1972 earnings were gone, mostly thanks to the Worldwide Church of God donations he gave with a big smile on his face (and later regretted).  His book earnings ran dry, his 1972 winnings were gone, so he resurfaced in 1992 in order to get some cash to live on for the rest of his life.  The 1992 rematch he won, which gave him somewhere around $3.5 million, which he lived on until he died only using approx $500,000 of it. 

 Man oh man---I wish you guys who like to talk Fischer actually knew something about Fischer. There must be a hundred books on Fischer---perhaps that many dvds and radio interviews etc., etc.

Fischer said on interviews over the radio that he invested heavily in precious metals after he won the 3.5 million. He said "I spend a million and I make a million. he said in 2006 or 2007 that although he was spending money like it was going out of style---he still had as almost as much as he had in 92'.

I suggest you do better research before making these incorrect statements about Fischer.

 

You may be correct on the precious metals part.  Although I doubt you listened to all the radio interviews in order to garner that knowledge.  Because I have, and the number of hours of mindless jew hating is tough to sift through when looking for chess related insight from the man.  It's a pity I have to side against Fischer with you, because he's one of my top 5 favorites, but someone must, because other greats don't get enough credit from you in my opinion.  

 

I side against Fischer when talking with raul72, because you are head over heels in love with him

I side with Fischer when talking with Fezzik, because he treats him like an ex husband

Funny how that works.

Of all the GIANTS of chess Fischer and Spassky will always be my favorites and its because of their match in 72 that I got involved in serious/tournament chess. For this reason they are my favorites and Fischer beats out Spassky ( as a chess player ) because he won their match and he is American afterall ...... yeah , I have a tad of nationalism in me..... who doesnt ??  As far as Fischer going nuts and becoming a paranoid, hatefilled, bitter  human being in the endgame of his life this has no influence on me when rating him as a chess player and the contribution he made to the game that brings all of us here. 

 

I love Spassky, that guy is so laid back and chilled.  And the amount of respect he showed Fischer (I already posted about the details a page or two back) without seeing much in return is unbelievable. 

Another example I can think of is his letter to the president about the 1992 match in Yugoslavia, where the government condemned Fischer partaking in it.  Spassky wrote to the president "Well I took part in it too, so if you want to jail Fischer, jail me as well and put us in the same cell with a chessboard".   Fischer's response when he saw the letter was something along the lines of "Bah! I don't want a cell with him, put me in a cell with that Kosteniuk chick".  

Fischer has said if Spassky wasn't Russian they would probably have been good friends.  Fischer referred to Spassky as his "frienemy".

Myself personally, I didn't know much about Spassky before reading about him in their 1972 match, but once I did my respect for him jumped 10 fold and now he's one of my favorite players.  Laid back, chilled, funny, loves chess, and is great at it.

Watch Spassky, love Spassky

 Averbakh, president of the Russian chess federation, said Spassky was an actor---he wanted to be the focus of attention. He was a joker. Averbakh attended Keres funeral with Spassky. Estonia gave Keres a state funeral. 100,000 people showed up. Averbakh said all those people on the street dressed in black and Spassky stood out. Spassky, wanting to be the focus of attention, dressed in a red suit!

I suspect thats what he was doing when he told Bush to put him in a cell with Fischer. It did make front page news.Tongue out

---Bobby Fischer goes to War---p-68

raul72
raul72
Apr 16, 2011
0
#311
Fezzik wrote:

Reb, Alekhin admitted to writing pro-Nazi screeds during the war, but he claimed he did it under duress because the Nazis threatened his wife and family. After the war, there was a move to blacklist Alekhin from any international tournament. 

I don't have enough information to decide for myself whether he actually believed what he wrote during the war or whether he really was pressured to write them. I tend to believe Alekhine since he didn't write anything like that apart from during the war. But whether that exonerates him is beyond me.

 Correct me if I'm wrong but I dont believe Alekhine ever admitted to writing pro Nazi articles. He always denied writing those pro nazi articles.Smile

batgirl
batgirl
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Apr 16, 2011
0
#312

Didn't Alekhine constantly deny publicly his authorship of the articles (or at least in their published form) after the fall of Germany, but prior to that, shortly after their publication, admit to them in a couple interviews in Spanish newspapers?

Additionally, no one less than Max Euwe stated in an interview with Hans Bouwmeester (1981):
Euwe: Alekhine had a very difficult life. All in all, he was always very correct with me. He stayed with me during our match in 1926 on the eve of his match with Capablanca. In 1935, when I played him the Dutch press was against him and he had his problems with the committee who numbered some hard, strict men - maybe justifiably.
. . .
After he beat Lasker at Zurich he said something like "the Jew has had another lesson!"
Bouwmeester: So he was already anti-semitic in 1934?   . . .
Euwe:  Tartakover was a very interesting man - a paradox. A fine, often trenchant, writer. When, in London in 1946 Alekhine's collaboration with the Nazis came into question, Tartakover maintained that it was not for us but for the French Government to judge the case.  That Alekhine was anti-Semitic, we have all known since 1934.
. . .
Bouwmeester: Is it true that during the second world war he spent a lot of time
with the Nazi Governor Frank?
Euwe: That is certainly true. Frank was friendly with Bogolyubov and they played chess together. It seems to me they just wanted to play chess.
Alekhine may have hoped the Germans would win because he owned several houses in Leningrad. As things went, he lost everything. . .

Make of it as you may.

dannyhume
dannyhume
Apr 16, 2011
0
#313
Reb wrote:
dannyhume wrote:

As long as we can all agree Alekhine was a Nazi scumbag and Capablanca is cuban.  

It hard for me to buy this trash since his wife was jewish. 

 

Just because his wife was jewish does not mean Capablanca is not Cuban.

Check out wikipedia's section on Alekhine under "Accusations of anti-semitism".  It sounds like the jury is out...  

Winter concludes: "Although, as things stand, it is difficult to construct much of a defence for Alekhine, only the discovery of the articles in his own handwriting will settle the matter beyond all doubt." Under current Frenchcopyright law, Alekhine's notebooks will not enter the public domain until January 1, 2017.

Wikipedia is the Capablanca of online encyclopaediae.

 

raul72
raul72
Apr 16, 2011
0
#314
batgirl wrote:

Didn't Alekhine constantly deny publicly his authorship of the articles (or at least in their published form) after the fall of Germany, but prior to that, shortly after their publication, admit to them in a couple interviews in Spanish newspapers?

Additionally, no one less than Max Euwe stated in an interview with Hans Bouwmeester (1981):
Euwe: Alekhine had a very difficult life. All in all, he was always very correct with me. He stayed with me during our match in 1926 on the eve of his match with Capablanca. In 1935, when I played him the Dutch press was against him and he had his problems with the committee who numbered some hard, strict men - maybe justifiably.
. . .
After he beat Lasker at Zurich he said something like "the Jew has had another lesson!"
Bouwmeester: So he was already anti-semitic in 1934?   . . .
Euwe:  Tartakover was a very interesting man - a paradox. A fine, often trenchant, writer. When, in London in 1946 Alekhine's collaboration with the Nazis came into question, Tartakover maintained that it was not for us but for the French Government to judge the case.  That Alekhine was anti-Semitic, we have all known since 1934.
. . .
Bouwmeester: Is it true that during the second world war he spent a lot of time
with the Nazi Governor Frank?
Euwe: That is certainly true. Frank was friendly with Bogolyubov and they played chess together. It seems to me they just wanted to play chess.
Alekhine may have hoped the Germans would win because he owned several houses in Leningrad. As things went, he lost everything. . .

Make of it as you may.

 Batgirl, the question was did he admit to writing those pro nazi articles? A simple yes or no will do.

Then we can go on to some of the other questions you brought up.Smile

dannyhume
dannyhume
Apr 16, 2011
0
#315

Because Alekhine is an unbiased source regarding whether he was or wasn't a Nazi in his last year of life following the demolishing of the Nazi scumbags with his allegiance in question. 

batgirl
batgirl
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Apr 16, 2011
0
#316

 "Batgirl, the question was did he admit to writing those pro nazi articles? A simple yes or no will do."

Then read my first sentence.

TinLogician
TinLogician
Apr 16, 2011
0
#317

Did anybody say Fischer yet?

dannyhume
dannyhume
Apr 16, 2011
0
#318
Webhead wrote:

Did anybody say Fischer yet?

Interestingly enough, I did...first mention of Fischer in this post by yours truly (post 13).  Ewwwww-weeeeee, wut up wit dat, wut up wit dat y'all, wut up wit dat?

raul72
raul72
Apr 16, 2011
0
#319
batgirl wrote:

 "Batgirl, the question was did he admit to writing those pro nazi articles? A simple yes or no will do."

Then read my first sentence.

 Read this---do you have a tongue inpediment! Cant you man up and say yes or no?

raul72
raul72
Apr 16, 2011
0
#320
Fezzik wrote:

My understanding is that Alekhin claimed to have written "scientific" articles that were edited by the Nazis. His defenders point out that there were numerous misspellings of GM names that Alekhin would never have made, "proving" that the anti-semitic comments were added by pro-Nazi editors. But there are many reasons for misspellings. 

Alekhin apparently stated that he wrote the articles in order to get an exit visa and he was worried about how the Nazis would treat his Jewish wife. 

Alekhin tried to get out of Europe and get a visa to travel to the US. Anti-semitism wasn't limited to just the Nazis, and there are various degrees of anti-semitism. He definitely had help from Jewish GMs and played them throughout his career. 

Still, Batgirl's quote of Euwe's famous interview is still relevant.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to any of the primary sources. Even if I did, I'm not sure there's enough evidence to come to any firm conclusions.

Keres wasn't blacklisted for his participation in Nazi chess tournaments. 

 You are wrong as usual---but you do have batgirl in your corner, which is a plus.

You are not only wrong about saying he admitted to writing pro nazi articles but you were wrong when you said "I tend to believe Alekhine since he didn't write anything like that apart from during the war."

You, I have no hope for but batgirl is really a disappointment.