why are Russians so good at chess

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WanderingPuppet

BTW, Armenia and Iceland have done very well in chess considering small country size although Iceland yet to produce any superstars in chess AFAIK.

fabelhaft
Petrosianic wrote:

BTW, Armenia and Iceland have done very well in chess considering small country size although Iceland yet to produce any superstars in chess AFAIK.

Iceland is a funny case. The Armenians one can at least partly "blame" on Soviet chess tradition etc. But Iceland only has 300 000 inhabitants and no chess tradition at all from before the 20th century. No superstars, but twelve active GMs, and Olafsson played a Candidates where he won twice against Petrosian, Hjartarson won a Candidates match against Korchnoi etc.

As a comparison, Ireland has almost 5 million inhabitants, and their strongest player is in the 2400s (and "imported" from Russia).

FortunaMajor

They draw their inspirations from the likes of Karjakin and Kramnik.

Strangemover

Petrosianic wrote:

BTW, Armenia and Iceland have done very well in chess considering small country size although Iceland yet to produce any superstars in chess AFAIK.

Johann Hjartarson reached the Candidates quarter finals (?) in 1988 I think where he lost to Karpov, after beating Korchnoi.

Grey_Goose

I feel the word "Culture" could sum it all up.

macer75
aravinds_ll wrote:

They draw their inspirations from the likes of Karjakin and Kramnik.

No pun intended?

xoclueless

because Putin uses computers, and Trump has no clue

wayne_thomas
Petrosianic wrote:

Interesting list considering where the players are today.  Kasparov and Karpov mostly retired from top level chess, Gelfand playing for ISR, Ivanchuk for UKR, Bareev (coaching, I think, or did) for RUS, Gurevich (IDK what country he is playing for, think I know but not sure), Ehlvest, Yudasin both in US, Salov retired fairly young, and Beliavsky plays for (IDK who) but he still plays well at an advanced age.

Kasparov currently lives in New York.  Bareev coaches, and plays a little bit for Canada.  Mikhail Gurevich moved to Belgium.  Salov is living in Spain I believe.  Beliavsky moved to Slovenia.  After 1991-2, it was much easier for ex-Soviet GMs to emigrate.

Strong Russian players often left Russia even in the Soviet days - Ossip Bernstein, Nimzowitsch, Alekhine, Bogoljubow, Shamkovich, Spassky, Korchnoi, Alburt, Gulko, and after the break up Yermolinsky.  A few players have gone the other way, most notably Flohr and Lilienthal.  Emanuel Lasker even lived in Russia briefly in the 1930's before coming to the U.S.

Botvinnik once told a western GM that he could have defected in 1926 when he was in Stockholm, but things worked out OK for him even though he stayed.

Carving01

in 1991 they got paid very well to play chess in The Soviet Union. It was their way of' humping the leg' of the west. They wanted to show superiority so they made great chess players. Meanwhile the US was growing freedom and democracy around the world. Which seem more worthwhile to me.

wayne_thomas

I don't think Botvinnik, Smyslov, Tal, Petrosian and Spassky earned that much from winning their titles.  They did get to travel a lot, and they could buy western things more easily than most Russians.  It was only after Fischer that the prize funds for title matches became quite substantial.

When Soviet GMs played abroad up in the 1960's, I think the state would pay for their travel, but if they won money in the tournie or in simuls, often the KGB would swoop in to take the prize to offset their costs.  By the 1980's though, they seemed to be allowed to keep their winnings.

Soviet clubs would retain in-house GMs to act as teachers for the membership.  This was a steady income.  Probably most western clubs do not have an in-house GM.

Sometimes a western federation will pay for its team to travel to an Olympiad, but many western players have to pay their own travel expenses except for the prestige tournaments where the organizers pay appearance fees for the top GMs to come.

FortunaMajor
macer75 wrote:

No pun intended?

Not intentionally. Did you?

fabelhaft
Carving01 wrote:

in 1991 they got paid very well to play chess in The Soviet Union. It was their way of' humping the leg' of the west. They wanted to show superiority so they made great chess players. Meanwhile the US was growing freedom and democracy around the world. Which seem more worthwhile to me.

Play a board game or invade Iraq? 

SovietVIta
Carving01 wrote:

in 1991 they got paid very well to play chess in The Soviet Union. It was their way of' humping the leg' of the west. They wanted to show superiority so they made great chess players. Meanwhile the US was growing freedom and democracy around the world. Which seem more worthwhile to me.

Listen, I don't hate America. But what you're saying is incredibly misleading, the US during the cold war made a hobby out of overthrowing democratically elected leaders.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change#Cold_War_era

 

The USSR was oppressive in the Hungarian Revolt of 1956, and Prague Spring in 1968, but that's really it. In Afghanistan they were invited by the legitimate government to help them fight the Jihadis and terrorists, meanwhile the US funded said terrorists and later became Al-Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS etc. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

 

America was certainly much more free and democratic than the Soviet Union, and that's good, but abroad they often went against the ideals they claimed to hold, this applies to both actually.

camter

Same reason that the All Blacks are so good at Rugby Union.

Every schoolboy in the nation knows how to play the game.

fabelhaft

Things have changed quite a bit the last decades though, with top rated players like Carlsen, So, Caruana, Nakamura, MVL etc. I looked at the top rated players born 1999-2001 and in the top 16 there weren't a single Russian (but four Americans).

camter
fabelhaft wrote:

Things have changed quite a bit the last decades though, with top rated players like Carlsen, So, Caruana, Nakamura, MVL etc. I looked at the top rated players born 1999-2001 and in the top 16 there weren't a single Russian (but four Americans).

Great Americans. But, I agree that what was Russia is not Russia now,  but what country is better? American home product is still not up to Eastern Europe, and the emerging China.

ANOK1

be so cool to put the answer solely at one individuals door , Michael Botvinnik , but although a great worker in the soviet chess school he wasnt alone ,

Russia is chess , even if it wasnt when it began it is now , you want to take it from them , you put nearly a century of funding effort in and it might work

as an aside from the op , Football , isnt called soccer,so please americans stop calling it that ta , and if you love Football then it wont be long before season starts

       

KholmovDM

I remember the first chess lesson I ever took in Russia. My coach put both kings on their starting positions, gave me a pawn on e2 and said "Win".  I still believe this is FAR more important to a beginner than learning how any kind of opening works. 

briansladovich
KholmovDM wrote:

I remember the first chess lesson I ever took in Russia. My coach put both kings on their starting positions, gave me a pawn on e2 and said "Win".  I still believe this is FAR more important to a beginner than learning how any kind of opening works. 

LMAO! - did you win?

FortunaMajor

Go is a sport too.